Prompted to post this following the URAD thread on the Croesor ladder bridge.

Setting aside the discussion of was it chopped / did it fail, I was wondering what the consensus was amongst people on here about such fixed aids underground.

For my own part, I have no problem with them. The ladder bridge is (was) quite a major undertaking, must have cost a bit and taken some time to put together. It was one of a number of fun aspects of the trip, and yes, they do water down the technical level of the trip but IMO they don't make it any less enjoyable or satisfying.

A boat trip across that chamber would have been something of a non-entity, not long enough to be of any note and there's a proper boat trip/swim (for the hardcore) later on.

I know some purists would say do it the traditional way, swim it or traverse it, but:

- Arguably there is no traditional way, mines are not natural so this isn't comparable to a climbing / cave situation. The slate mines are full of bridges, cat walks and chains.

- The bridge spanned a chamber that wasn't part of the original route

- You can still do it the 'traditional' way if you wish. Same goes for the 1st and 2nd zip wires as well, if you really wanted to you could boat/swim the 1st zipwire chamber and traverse the second.

So what's the feeling on these fixed aids? Either this ladder bridge in particular or the wider issue.

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No great objection to fixed aids although sometimes they create a totally different environment to what preceded them.
The broken bridge reffered to for example, not such a big deal where it is but a similar structure in other places completely changes the nature of its surroundings.
Clear as muck I know but hopefully you get my meaning.
It can be argued thgat without some fixed aids there are lots of things that will never be seen

It can be argued thgat without some fixed aids there are lots of things that will never be seen

True Jagman, however in the context of this trip, SOMEBODY spent MONEY and TIME putting in a very complicated bit of rigging which *may* have been deliberately trashed...............IMO & if that's the case I hope that I don't meet up with the culprit(s) coz if I do I'll mek em re-rig it nekked.

Imagine going to the BOD(OD) in C********IN an old existing bridge and itching to know what's on the other side (yes we all know the one I'm alluding to) 9 pages of speculation on another forum, and without fixed aids we'd never have known what was on the other side.

Its like the CRTT without modern fixed aids would the trip be possible?? I doubt it.

I think that they have their place when judiciously placed, by diligent and COMPETENT folk.

there you go my 2p's worth.

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Just because these fixed aids are there, doesnt make it compulsory to use them. There are other ways (on the same routes) for the traditionalists

(whats URAD?)
I think I've had my two p's worth on other forums....but that won't stop me.
1) Variety on that trip is good, lots of different aspects.
2) Bridges in mines.....they exist, just because one happens to be a bit newer than the others.
3) Like its been said before, if people don't want to use them...don't. Your also more than welcome not to use the ropes on the two drops, free climb down 😉
4) the "original" trip was just a straight walk through, its just evolved as conditions change.

As for other mines, fixed aids, great, It enables people (who still need to be skilled, its not inviting numptys to places they shouldn't be) to explore parts that would never normally be seen and that's the whole point for mine explorers who are interested in the mine itself rather than just a trip for trips sake.

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I dont mind fixed aids although I think less experience folks can treat them as 'safe' without considering who might have put them there or whether they are suitable for the purpose they want to use them for.

I guess many of us will have climbed up a rope only to find its hanging by a thread to a wobbly bolt 😮

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I guess many of us will have climbed up a rope only to find its hanging by a thread to a wobbly bolt 😮

Yeah.. know watcha mean. More times than I care to remember. Certainly adds a little flavour to the days adventures.. :lol:

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I guess many of us will have climbed up a rope only to find its hanging by a thread to a wobbly bolt 😮

Yeah.. know watcha mean. More times than I care to remember. Certainly adds a little flavour to the days adventures.. :lol:

My favourite was climbing a ladder hanging in a 150 foot shaft only to get to the top and fins said ladder hanging on a hook by telephone wire 😮