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Tamarmole
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie Topic Starter

12 years ago

Has anyone tried one of the new Petzl crolls yet? They look distinctly different; is this merely an aesthetic change or do they perform any better/differently than the old model?

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J25GTi
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

12 years ago

http://www.peakinstruction.com/blog/2013-petzl-croll-basic-review/
Just seems to be lighter, although the steel plate on the rope guide is a very good idea!

I imagine more expensive too though! Can't say I'll be investing in one until my croll has packed up, for 30grams of weight saving I'll just skip breakfast or something! :thumbsup:

droid
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

12 years ago

Read.....

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=15112.msg196567;topicseen#new

RJV
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

12 years ago

Ouch! I replaced my distinctly ceased to be grippy old one a couple months ago with one of the 'old' style ones and was vaguely disappointed I hadn't realised there was a new model out.

Not quite so disappointed now!

christwigg
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

12 years ago

For the sake of 30g I might get myself a spare 'old style' before they all disappear.

pwhole
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

12 years ago

I'm looking forward to replacing mine soon with a new one, as that wear-plate is what I've been waiting for. Mine's not as worn as some I've seen (one was frightening), but it's slowly getting a groove cut out, though not so much as it would damage the rope. At least then I have a spare with some life left in it, rather than a total trash-job. And the stainless cam is long overdue - I know rust spots on cheapo chrome are unlikely to be that worrying in reality, but for constantly-wet components, stainless is the only answer, and I don't mind paying more for that.

RJV
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

12 years ago

Looking again at UK Caving it looks like the 'problem' might only exist when pushed far beyond normal limits, a storm in a tea cup.

christwigg
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

12 years ago

Yeah, when you drop a small car on this piece of kit then apparently it might fail.

As Roy said on a previous thread about ropes, human error is much more likely to cause you trouble.

The stainless cam is a good idea though, the rust on my current one is always a tiny bit unnerving.

Vanoord
54.4% (Neutral)
Newbie

12 years ago

Ah, knickers in a twist again.

Petzl wouldn't let something out of the door if it was prone to that sort of mechanical failure under normal circumatances.

Okay, they've had a couple of occasions recently where they've designed things that are dangerous if used incorrectly, but their QA is very good.

Ascenders are rated to a much lower figure than a lot of other gear, so it stands to reason they'll be easier to break on a test rig.

People can get a bit obsessed with figures but it's important to remember that the human body will break well before most kit will.

Hello again darkness, my old friend...

Tamarmole
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie Topic Starter

12 years ago

#10

Lots of food for thought.

(a) the old croll seems more resilient to catastrophic failure than the new croll. That said catastrophic failure is only going to occur at silly loadings. If that is the case this is not a deal breaker.

(b) The stainless cam sounds a winner, particularly in the context of nasty sulphidy metal mines

(c) The wear plate also sounds good especially given the increasing use of foot jammers.

When someone gets one could they post a review here.

It would be interesting to know how the rope runs through the new model compared with the old. It would also be interesting to see how it sits in relation to the main harness maillon and the chest harness.

droid
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

12 years ago

#11

Food for thought indeed.

Whilst I agree with the thesis that human error is far more likely to cause problems than equipment failure, if the google translation is saying what I think it's saying then there's permanent deformation (opening up) at 3kN. I'd say that's entirely possible in a bolt failure at a rebelay.

Not as dramatic as the original title....Capn Chriss has retitled the thread, but still worth bearing in mind....

I do like the idea of the steel wear plate though.

Tamarmole
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie Topic Starter

12 years ago

#12

It will be interesting to see if Lyon issue a response to the concerns flagged up on ukcaving

hamster
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

12 years ago

#13

Been using one for a few weeks, seems ok. The only slight problem is when doing a changeover from prussic to abseil, the rope has a tendency to hook under the lip at the front as you lower yourself onto the descender.

The old croll had a much steeper angle underneath so the rope just slid out.

Tamarmole
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie Topic Starter

12 years ago

#14

Have found an interesting American review.

http://blog.rockcreek.com/archives/vertical-caving-with-the-new-redesigned-2013-petzl-basic-and-petzl-croll-ascenders.html

The old Croll was designed for use with 8mm - 13mm ropes whilst the new Croll is designed for 8mm to 11mm ropes. The reviewer comments that there are issues with larger (11mm) ropes feeding through the new Croll.

droid
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

12 years ago

#15

Possibly because standard 'heavy' caving rope is now 10.5mm

Tamarmole
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie Topic Starter

12 years ago

#16

"droid" wrote:
Possibly because standard 'heavy' caving rope is now 10.5mm

You have a point. My own rope is a mixed bag of 10mm and 10.5mm.

That said there are those who like the extra feel of security that an 11mm gives. I would also wager that a lot of clubs are using 11mm given the heavier use they are likely to get.

Vanoord
54.4% (Neutral)
Newbie

12 years ago

#17

Petzl have released a response to the "tests" that criticised the 2013 Croll:

http://www.petzl.com/files/fckfiles/file/reponse-croll/petzl-response-20-04-13-EN.pdf

In short, Petzl have not been able to replicate the damage; and the Croll will stand up to loads in excess of 6kN without failure in the system (including rope failure).

In simple terms, while the Croll can stand up to a 6kN loading, the person falling and applying that 6kN loading onto the Croll probably won't be in a very good state at all.

So no, you can't hang a car off a Croll - but it's more than adequate for SRT.

Hello again darkness, my old friend...

J25GTi
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

12 years ago

#18

"Vanoord" wrote:
Petzl have released a response to the "tests" that criticised the 2013 Croll:

http://www.petzl.com/files/fckfiles/file/reponse-croll/petzl-response-20-04-13-EN.pdf

In short, Petzl have not been able to replicate the damage; and the Croll will stand up to loads in excess of 6kN without failure in the system (including rope failure).

In simple terms, while the Croll can stand up to a 6kN loading, the person falling and applying that 6kN loading onto the Croll probably won't be in a very good state at all.

So no, you can't hang a car off a Croll - but it's more than adequate for SRT.

Nice to see the "tounge in cheek" atitude they took to the other report when pointing out it was all a load of tosh lol.

They would never sell it if it was dangerous, and unless sns can prove their tests with videos etc like petzl have I would just disregard them.

Its the same as anything if you use it like a **** it will break, and if it does break the "is my croll strong enough" question is the least of your worries!

Tamarmole
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie Topic Starter

9 years ago

#19

Thought I'd resurrect this old thread now that the 2013 Croll has been around for a while.

How are people finding them?

One worrying thing: a chap on UKC has recently posted that the stainless wear plate can wear to a razor edge fairly quickly which could have very nasty consequences.

RAMPAGE
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

9 years ago

#20

I like mine. Prefer it to the old one.

I don't do huge amounts of SRT these days, and try to avoid huge vertical pitches as I'm fundamentally lazy but my crolls do get used and the new one does feel nicer and I like the stainless plate.

Beneath my steely exterior beats the heart of a dashing hero