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gollum
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Newbie

15 years ago

#21

Hey All,

Here in the Colonies 😉 (actually, where I live wasn't an English Colony), I hunt out old Spanish gold and silver mines in the deserts and mountains in the American Southwest (I live in California).

I see that my pics have been cut up. Let me figure the proper size, and I will repost.

Here are some examples of old Spanish Mines I have found:

Something a bit more modern (late 1800s):

The Rangie that gets me where I need to go:

And a couple of more monuments:

The number seven engraved means that a protected campsite is nearby:

Follow where the eye is looking:

Best-Mike

ICLOK
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Newbie

15 years ago

#22

Interesting... do you find many relics of the miners, inscriptions and the like?

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!

james cartwright
50.2% (Neutral)
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15 years ago

#23

I like the look of thows mines no need for wellies out there.that said i dont have to be on the look out for scorpions and rattle snakes in wales

That hole aint gona dig it's self boy[/b]

Tayopa
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

15 years ago

#24

Good morning Gullum: Welcome to the group. Do you have more of your excellent pictures and / or stories? Where's your mule or burro, or do you travel with a Land Rover??

Don Jose de La Mancha

gollum
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

15 years ago

#25

"ICLOK" wrote:
Interesting... do you find many relics of the miners, inscriptions and the like?

Hey ICLOK,

I occasionally find pieces of star drill bits, buttons, and the like, but for the most part, iron was VERY valuable during Spanish Colonial Times. I would think that once most tools were worn out, their remnants would have been sold to ironmongers or blacksmiths to be remade into new tools.

If a mine was left unsealed, then it was either played out or discovered in the late 1800s or early 1900s and reworked. What I mostly look for are sealed mines. That's where the goodies lay.

I guess I should explain a bit. During the 1600s and 1700s, this area was not populated at all (except for natives). The closest Village sized populace was about two weeks ride South and East. Almost no water or food (except what they brought). You could only mine five or six months out of the year because of the heat. So, when mining season was coming to an end, they would seal up (hide) their working mines (booby trap the richer ones), and head back South to cooler climes until the next fall. Routes into and away from their mines would be monumented by rock carvings and monuments.

Best-Mike

Graigfawr
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Newbie

15 years ago

#26

@gollum: In view of the value of iron, any evidence for the use of stone tools?

How were the ores concentrated in view of the shortage of water? Hand-cobbling followd by hand-picking?

Presumably because of the dry climate, no wood for fire-setting? Also because of the lack of wood, were the ores taken out of the area for smelting?

Certainly a contrast to the wet, rainy hills of Wales!

gollum
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

15 years ago

#27

No, iron tools predominated. Just the cost of doing business for the Spanish. They would also start roaring fires next to the boulders, and when they had become hot and brittle, threw water on them..CRACK!

Arrastras (ore crushers) and smelters were built on site, crude dore (dor-ee) bars were cast and hidden until time to leave.

Mercury was used to concentrate the ores until cyanide leaching was found to be much less expensive (they didn't really care about lethality).

Best-Mike

ICLOK
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Newbie

15 years ago

#28

Mike, Do the rock carvings and monuments still exist and what about crushing sites etc have any early crushing rings etc survived or was that all done away with during various re-works etc...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!

gollum
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Newbie

15 years ago

#29

For the most part, the arrastras got taken apart at the end of every season. They would dig out all the dirt for about two feet underneath and pan it to get out all the fine gold that was pressed between the floorstones.

Occasionally (in very remote and hard to reach places) you can still find intact arrastras. In one case I know of, a group of miners were chased out of the mountains by Indians in about 1867. When my friends found it and dug it out, they retrieved about $17,000 US in gold. They are very rare though.

This one was found taken apart and reconstructed:

Off to work now.

Best-Mike

gollum
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

15 years ago

#30

This last pic is of a friend of mine from 1986. If you know what to look for and spend enough time out there,...............well, here are the 82 pounds of gold bars he found.

Best-Mike

ICLOK
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

15 years ago

#31

Holy Smoke ... for real... he must be a millionaire now! 😮

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!

gollum
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

15 years ago

#32

Not a millionaire. It was him, his brother, and two partners that found it. They quietly sold the lot for a bit over $500,000 US (this was in 1986 and gold was a little under $400/oz).

They split it four ways and had a great time.

Best-Mike

carnkie
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

15 years ago

#33

"gollum" wrote:
. In one case I know of, a group of miners were chased out of the mountains by Indians in about 1867. When my friends found it and dug it out, they retrieved about $17,000 US in gold.
Best-Mike

At least the Native Americans did have one victory. I find that statement a bit .... well I'll leave at that.

The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.

ICLOK
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Newbie

15 years ago

#34

Mike, I'm surprised there wasn't big museum interest in such a find... are there no Treasure Trove laws there as in the UK. If found together the whole lot would have been declared Treasure trove here and subject to an enquiry to decide ownership etc.
Regs ICLOK

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!

gollum
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

15 years ago

#35

REALLY? My family is from a tribe of the Celts called Picts (or Pictish).

Did the Brits treat their vassals any better? As I recall, thats why we here broke off relations and fought a revolution. How about the Brits in India? Africa? Asia?

One thing Liberal types tend to overlook when speaking of Amerindian History is that the Indians we screwed over had already screwed over several other Indian Tribes to get the land they had. 5000 years ago, there was a peaceful tribe of basket weavers called Anasazi. The Apache killed or enslaved them and took everything they had. Same for every other Indian Tribe in the US. Didn't the British use one tribe of Indians to fight the French and Iroquois in the early 1700s? Weren't the Iroquois almost wiped out from that war?

Same thing with slavery. Liberal types like to ignore the fact that it was the Africans that were selling other Africans to Europeans. Previous to slavery, when there was a tribal war, the losing tribe would be annihilated.

Whine all you like about it, but history is history. No one nation is any better than any other about screwing over the original inhabitants of the lands they live on. Europeans just got about a thousand year start over us here. HAHAHA

So, instead of whining about your perceived notion of history, why don't we all have fun and talk about exploring mines?

Best-Mike

gollum
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Newbie

15 years ago

#36

"carnkie" wrote:

"gollum" wrote:
. In one case I know of, a group of miners were chased out of the mountains by Indians in about 1867. When my friends found it and dug it out, they retrieved about $17,000 US in gold.
Best-Mike

At least the Native Americans did have one victory. I find that statement a bit .... well I'll leave at that.

...............and if you saw how much the Indians were making off of us at their gambling casinos, you would feel sorry for US now! HAHAHA

Best-Mike

gollum
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Newbie

15 years ago

#37

"ICLOK" wrote:
Mike, I'm surprised there wasn't big museum interest in such a find... are there no Treasure Trove laws there as in the UK. If found together the whole lot would have been declared Treasure trove here and subject to an enquiry to decide ownership etc.
Regs ICLOK

OCLOK,

I WISH we here in the US had the type of Treasure Trove Laws you have in Britain.

As it is now, here is how such things work in the US:

First, you have to know what you are looking for. If you accidentally find a treasure (and admit as much) you lose all rights to anything found. Sorry.

If the treasure is on Government Land (almost all wilderness lands here are considered government). You have to present all your evidence to the head Ranger of the area you wish to search. An archaeological assessment has to be performed on the site (at your expense), and if the archaeologist says there is something of historical importance at the site, your Treasure Trove Permit will be denied, and you will lose the $250 US filing fee. If approved, you must post a reclamation bond with the BLM/USFS (Bureau of Land Management / US Forest Service). Next, you must negotiate your Treasure Trove Permit with the US General Services Admistration (GSA). The best deal you can ever hope to get is a 50/50 split with ALL expenses coming out of your 50%. Uncle Sam takes his right off the top.

So, after losing 50% to Uncle Sam, take out all expenses, your $1,000,000 turns out to be maybe $250,000. THEN, you are immediately thrust into the 50% income tax bracket. Now you are down to $125,000 from your original million.

Is it any wonder that many people who find treasures that are easy to recover keep them quiet?

Best-Mike

ICLOK
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

15 years ago

#38

Anyway mate... did your museums have much interest in your friends find and I was asking about whether Treasure Trove type laws apply in the US to such finds? Ie if you find something such as a pile of gold you get to keep? Here there would have to be a full inquest into whether it had been hidden with the intent of coming back for it... if yes the state can claim it but they do give you their valuation of the goods or let you keep it if its not considered that important a find or of that much interest.... just intrigued what rules apply there as I do abit of metal detecting in UK as well as my mining and rail interests.... 🙂

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!

ICLOK
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

15 years ago

#39

OOOOPS you appear to have answered mike .... apologies!

Omigord.... I thought our laws here were Draconian.... so much paperwork there in the US then. How are they about accessing mines on Govt property... strict or do they turn a blind eye?
(Am going to turn in shortly so forgive me if no response)

Regs ICLOK

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!

carnkie
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Newbie

15 years ago

#40

"gollum" wrote:

"carnkie" wrote:

"gollum" wrote:
.
...............and if you saw how much the Indians were making off of us at their gambling casinos, you would feel sorry for US now! HAHAHA Best-Mike

Interesting that they are still Indians and all the immigrants happen to be Americans. HaHaHa.
The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.