Back a while, OG was owned and worked by the mill owner Courtaulds. Why? because they needed to safeguard the water flow to the entrance of the tunnel where the water was used in one of their factories.
Time passes and the water is now owned and used by United Utilities, they supply the water to a factory and must guarantee supply. They no longer work the mine but still need security of their resource.
They understand the need for maintenance and also have to live in the modern world where H & S is god.
Access for those strange people who want to slide down ropes and look round mines for FUN is not high on anyones list of priorities.
Any access will be grudging and will take a lot of care as Peter Burgess points out. Probably not soon either.....

Les

Quite so. Mines are working operations and right now, OG is producing water for commercial purposes. People need to bear this in mind because UU have a perfectly straightforward commercial option not to allow anyone in, full stop. Boulby are quite forthcoming about visitors, Union Salt at Winsford aren't and nr are British Gypsum. It's their decision.

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Just out of interest.
GCC control the access to a short level ending in a 400 foot shaft with fixed ladders leading down to a large complex of workings.
Lets just suppose access is restored, and you are in their shoes.
Now think about this.
How would you deal with access?
I mean free access just lift a Nenthead gate and in you go, combination lock similar to Cwmorthin, lock down but lend keys?
What?

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Very hypothetical question....

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Very hypothetical question....

BUT one that needs answering.

I feel that in order to satisfy everyone it will be long, protracted and complicated!

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Very hypothetical question....

BUT one that needs answering.

I feel that in order to satisfy everyone it will be long, protracted and complicated!

Well yes.
I want to stay out of any discussion regarding politics, questionable behaviour etc, but there remains that fundamental issue.

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Video (made 2015 seemingly) of a through trip from Rhydalun to Milwr Adit portal

Allowing for falls and deterioration of the unmaintained tunnel in recent decades, it is broadly similar to the account of a decidedly illicit swimming through trip from Olwyn Goch or an adjacent shaft made by South Wales Caving Club members in the 1960s and published in their club journal. This was a period when some of their members were quite active in mining, notably trying to reopen part of Nantymwyn Upper Boat Level and exploring other parts of that mine.

From memory, the SWCC trip was a bit of an epic adventure.;D

I thought these days it was all about bell-aching on internet forums about how everyone else is doing it wrong......

Proper caving clubs in the 60s had spirit and balls. They made men of a different sort then.

The Plymouth Caving Group once did a shaft with 500ft of electron ladders (probably without permission). They were intrepid.

Tigers of their day and harder than today's mine explorers. This depth compares with the 1960s expeditions to bottom Provatina in Greece, at the time the deepest known pot in the world. Jim Eyre's account of descending the 575ft first stage and then the first 400ft of the second stage, only to run out of ladders is very readable*. Ultimately the army used a winch to bottom the pot at 1,295ft - the second stage turned out to be 720ft.

Jim was a deeply humorous writer about the underground scene. On a mining front his best piece concerned the great Maeshafn Lead Mine rescue in north east Wales 1964. His account of setting off down the 975ft Great Grosvenor Shaft down which 700ft of ladders had been lowered is laugh aloud stuff ** but I won't attempt to precis it - it should be read in his original words.

* J.Eyre "The cave explorers", Alberta, Canada, 1981 - chapter 8; reprinted in the second vol of his caving autobiography "The game goes on", Abergavenny, 2007 as chapter 4.

** Chapter 6 in his 1981 book; chapter 3in his 2007 book.

Hi,
The PCG did indeed go down Ley's Shaft in George and Charlotte Mine with full permission. Mainly abseilling down. 500 feet of electron ladders, with 400 feet on a steep incline, using DIY self-lifelining ropewalkers to get out again.
Later free-diving into deep adit level made it a through trip, into what is now the Morwelham tourist railway entrance.

But before that, Jim Eyres climbed 2,000 feet deep in Provotina Pot, (Greece), on borrowed ladders! Many rungs slipped...As he would famously say " If y'int ard shouldn'a come!"

Maybe there are less 'Firsts' nowadays to inspire people ?
Regards,
D.Send.

From memory, the SWCC trip was a bit of an epic adventure.;D

I heard parts of it from some of the SWCC members who were there - they were swept along by the current far beyond any hope of swimming back upstream and with very real worries that the entrance area might have sumped - fortunately it hadn't. They had made 'arrangements' with a mine employee for the shaft top and the adit entrances to be unlocked and for discreet night-time entry and exit

This was also the period when the club bottomed Balinka Pot in Yuogoslavia - 725 ft in a single pitch using a home-made winch followed by a further 100ft on ladders, to recover bodies of partisans that the Germans had thrown down the pot during the war, for which the club was awarded an impressive Yugoslav medal. Club members who were there told me that when they reported to the Yugoslav authorities that they'd also found human remains in German uniforms, they received the reply that it was known that partisans had thrown Germans down the pot also, but that their bodies should be left down there.

Hi again,

I stand corrected : Jim Eyres had estimated the total depth of Provatina as 2000 feet !

Thankyou GraigFawr...

D.Send.

I think its more a case of "work smarter, not harder" these days.

Gone are the days of having to lug ladders when you can just bolt it and SRT your way through.

People also keep "firsts" closer to their hearts now.

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Hi,
Yes, to rig the 500 foot shaft, the PCG had to make a lot of ladder... and also make rope-walkers for self-lifelining in a kinked shaft.
DIY Rope-walkers had been tested as SRT devices, but at the time, low-elasticity caving ropes were three-core twisted Ulstron. So ascension meant nauseating spinning! Braided climbing ropes came on the market, but they were high-stretch, so not much use to leave the ground!
Floatable Bluewater ropes were tried too, but the sheaths had low resistance to mine grit... and would slip...

So Jim Eyres & Co had to enjoy humping ladders.
"Humping is happiness... Happiness is compulsory"

Yes, Blober, Evolution is the rule to get ever further, deeper, faster...
D.Send.

Graigfawr,
Thanks for posting up the link to the video, for someone like myself, who has only read about the Halkyn system, it makes for interesting viewing.
A number of points come to mind after watching it.
The first is this group, had carried this exploration previously, but presumably this was the first time they had admitted to,videoing it?
United utilities are certainly tempting their luck with not keeping an eye on the condition of the Tunnel.
If it becomes more blocked, than it is, then there is the distinct possibility of some sort of water-blow out. This almost took place at Leadhills, when Gripps level was blocked.
It occurred in Derbyshire when Magpie sough was blocked, and may have happened again, with the potential for even larger damage except that here P.D.M.S, arranged to,clear it out.
In my opinion any ‘official connection with the Utility company should mention this possibility.

United Utilities are well aware of the dangers of a blockage in the Milwr. They do organise inspections of the condition of the level.

Chris.

Graigfawr,
Thanks for posting up the link to the video, for someone like myself, who has only read about the Halkyn system, it makes for interesting viewing.
A number of points come to mind after watching it.
The first is this group, had carried this exploration previously, but presumably this was the first time they had admitted to,videoing it?
United utilities are certainly tempting their luck with not keeping an eye on the condition of the Tunnel.
If it becomes more blocked, than it is, then there is the distinct possibility of some sort of water-blow out. This almost took place at Leadhills, when Gripps level was blocked.
It occurred in Derbyshire when Magpie sough was blocked, and may have happened again, with the potential for even larger damage except that here P.D.M.S, arranged to,clear it out.
In my opinion any ‘official connection with the Utility company should mention this possibility.

Contractors are currently clearing the collapses shown in the video, the 1st collapse they cleared was at Herwards shaft, towards the end of the video which they cleared before the trip was made in summer 2016 (you can see the results of the work in the video with all the "netting" on the walls/roof).

The 2nd collapse (which they had to carry the boats over) is in the process of being cleared by the contractors. I don't know if they will clear the collapse known as the rapids in the video.

The contractors gave the signs below to the local clubs most active in the tunnel to place at their respective access points.
[photo]113878[/photo]

Thank you for this interesting update. Do you know how the contractors are gaining access (boat?) and where they are removing spoil to (surface by boat / stacking in side tunnels?)?

I attended the NAHMO trip courtesy of GCC and found it a fascinating location.

I cannot find my full plan (yet!), try this for now.

https://sites.google.com/site/flintshireleadmining/north-henblas-mine-Milwr 

Edit: Well worth a read.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Milwr-Tunnel-Bagillt-Loggerheads-1897-1987/dp/0952224208