Snowdonia Mines Access and Conservation Group Inaugural Meeting

29th February. Memorial Hall, Betws y Coed. 7pm

We'd very much like to invite all interested parties to the inaugural meeting of the Snowdonia Mines Access and Conservation Group to be held at the Memorial Hall, Betws y Coed from 7pm on the 29th of February.

The groups aim is to co-ordinate access to a selection of mines in North Wales, owned by the Forestry Commission, that fall within the British Caving Associations Local Cave and Mine Leader Award scheme.

The purpose of the meeting is to invite interested parties to join us, explain our remit, roles and responsibilities.

Agenda

1. Introductions
2. History and the current position
3. Purpose of the group
4. Constitution
5. How the permit system would work
6, Future developments
7. Questions/comments

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63623071/SMACG_Constitution.pdf 

http://g.co/maps/cdmkp 

We very much look forward to meeting you

Gethin Thomas
Interim Chair, SMACG
23rd February 2012

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I see that although the blurb above refers to mines within FC area, the constitution section 1b reads:-

"The term "mines" within the constitution hereinafter refer to all mines abandoned mines and underground quarries.

Is this yet another case of empire building?

Whilst I would agree to it in regard to FC, it does seem capable of being interretted differently, thus creating problems where problems do not currently exist.

Unfortunately I will not be able to attend the meeting in Betws.

"The term "mines" within the constitution hereinafter refer to all mines abandoned mines and underground quarries.

Is this yet another case of empire building?

If Snowdonia National Park Authority become involved who knows where it may lead.:(

I am glad I am not the only one seeing this as possible bad news.

In fact, even the name is worrying! Snowdonia is one heck of a larger area!! Come to that, even FC land covers a hell of a lot of mines.

If it is the Gwydyr area that is mainly aimed at (plus Rhiwbach of course) why not say that.

I see that although the blurb above refers to mines within FC area, the constitution section 1b reads:-

"The term "mines" within the constitution hereinafter refer to all mines abandoned mines and underground quarries.

Is this yet another case of empire building?

Whilst I would agree to it in regard to FC, it does seem capable of being interretted differently, thus creating problems where problems do not currently exist.

Unfortunately I will not be able to attend the meeting in Betws.

do you just sit at home looking for the negative in everything ...I find that in most of your post ..dont know why you bother. just give it a chance will you.

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No Marty, I do not!! :guns: :guns:

Some form of access and conservation group appears to be required in order to obtain legitimate access to mines and quarries on lands owned by the Forestry Commission and other landowners.

Whilst general discussion in this forum is useful, I suggest that anyone who has specific concerns submit alternative proposals (in writing if they can't attend personally) for consideration at the meeting.

Dave

Does anyone know who's involved in this? Obviously it's Gethin (since it's his name on the document), I'm just curious who else is involved? or are you all keeping quiet till the meeting?!
😮

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Has this been copied & sent in writing to the groups that have been active in the area for many years?

North Wales Caving club
Grosvenor caving club
Great Orme exploration society
North wales Cave rescue
Welsh Mines society
Welsh mines preservation trust
National Association of Mining History Organisations
Fforum Plas Tan Y Bwll
Forgive me if I have missed anyone.

Has it been cross posted onto ALL mining, history and cave exploration forums?
Just posting on this site with something that looks like an already set up organisation is not in the spirit of free co-operation.

Bad form :smartass:

I think it's a good idea.

Over the years, there have been many different individuals negotiating with the Forestry Commission and landowners regarding access to mines in the Gwydr forest. Most of the outcomes to negotiations have been intentionally or unintentionally kept in the dark. Surely a united conservation trust can't be a bad thing. As long as everything is kept open and honest, i can't see it going wrong.

I believe DaveL is going to be notifying other clubs, groups and web discussion lists. MM will be posting on ME.

The fact it's appeared on here and I've posted it doesn't mean it's something I've set up 😉 I haven't. I was just asked to relay the information. And I understand it will announced as widely as possible.

I don't know much about the organisation at this stage. But looking forward to the meeting to find out all about it.

The meeting is an open meeting, everyone is welcome to attend and as Dave said, feel free to make comments in writing (or even PM to me if you wish) if you cannot attend.

Technically most of the mines under its jurisdiction (if that's the correct word) have always had issues with access insofar as they're all on forestry land. And it may be a case of some access body being better than no access body and no access.

My interest is in ensuring that the purely hobbyist mine explorer is catered for - as well as conservation issues considered - in addition to the centre and commercial users who will be paying for it.

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Sounds very good Simon.

in addition to the centre and commercial users who will be paying for it.

I assume 'Centre' indicates adventure/outdoor persuit etc so who might other commercial users be, if any?

I assume 'Centre' indicates adventure/outdoor persuit etc so who might other commercial users be, if any?

MM operates 'Underground Adventure Trips' commercially in Rhiwbach under the name "Go Bellow".

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Thanks, I'd forgotten about MM.

Miles on ME has summed up the groups aims, I imagine most of you have seen them, but just in case you do not venture to the ME:

"In a nutshell, the Forestery Commission has finally agreed to consider opening up some of their mines for personal explorers, caving clubs, LCMLA groups etc. Mines like Parc, Pandora and Aberllyn that have always been strictly off-limits and gated (even if some people know of sneaky ways in).

The FC have agreed to allow access only if the actual access control of those mines is handed over to a a new access group set up for the purpose. It is the responsability of this group to hand out gate codes and stuff.

That is what SMACG is. They will provide free access to mines on forestery land that were previously out of bounds.

This is happening nationally. Each mining or caving region in the UK is getting its own controlling body to open up and administer forestery-owned mines and caves. Here in snowdonia, the new group is called SMACG.

It's democraticly run and anyone can stand for any post. "

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Thanks Mr Mike

For the record, so everybody knows it's not a secret, the following groups have been notified so far:

• The Forestry Commission
• Mine Explorer
• AditNow
• UCET
• UK Caving
• North Wales CC
• Parys Mountain Group
• Great Orme Exploration Society
• NAMHO
• Cambrian Caving Council, and
• All the Centres that use Rhiwbach

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If it's to control the access of the mines around Llanrwst and Penmachno,why call it 'Snowdonia' as that implies that it covers the whole area. Something like Gwydyr Mines etc would be more fitting?

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If it's to control the access of the mines around Llanrwst and Penmachno,why call it 'Snowdonia' as that implies that it covers the whole area. Something like Gwydyr Mines etc would be more fitting?

Assuming SMACG's remit includes Rhiwbach, is that not well outside the Gwydir?

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If Rhiwbach is on FC land near Penmachno then it's in Gwydyr Forest Park. This group is to control the access on FC land. If Rhiwbach is not on FC land then the group should not have control of the access. Simples

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If Rhiwbach is on FC land near Penmachno then it's in Gwydyr Forest Park. This group is to control the access on FC land. If Rhiwbach is not on FC land then the group should not have control of the access. Simples

Common sense :thumbup: .....in theory. However I fear that nothing in this debate is ever going to be "simples" 😞

I vote that we all attend the meeting in Betws, or submit our comments / questions for inclusion, and wait to hear what is said. All sorts of people have all sorts of agendas when an issue like this is raised (again). I'm sure it will be a lively meeting on such an emotive subject. :thumbsup:

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