The red rope on the first abseil has been melted (looks like soembody going too fast with too small a descender). The sheath has ruptured about 1/2 way down it. Take your own rope for a pull-through!

Wow, that trip really does get a lot of traffic now. We are going through ropes so often. :blink:

Thanks Gwyddno for the information. :thumbsup:

Its shocking how much traffic that place gets 🙂 I may have a few ropes long enough for in there i will check once have moved house and manage to refind everything :lol:

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I've said it before!
Putting fixed ropes on those pitches with the known quantity of visitors and their uncertan level of training means YOU are accepting liability WHEN an accident happens.

Unfortunatly its an age old debate with no real solution.

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I've said it before!
Putting fixed ropes on those pitches with the known quantity of visitors and their uncertan level of training means YOU are accepting liability WHEN an accident happens.

Having checked this out with my resident "legal eagle" (Mrs Sinker) it would appear that generally you are not liable in law if you leave a rope and someone else decides to use it. I say generally as there may be some obscure mining-related law that applies, but that's doubtful. In law, the liability rests with the owner of the land/mine/quarry/building or whatever else it was that the rope was attached to. Not being liable in law, however, doesn't always leave you free from a civil action.....now that IS a sticky wicket and largely untested. Let's hope it goes on untested.....
Use unknown rigged pitches by all means, but don't go crying to the person who rigged it six months earlier if you subsequently fall off because you didn't check it properly or just simply took it on trust.

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Who replaces the ropes ? Is it just random visitors or is it certain groups with an interest in the mine?

I was involved in the retrieval of some one way visitors several years back and my own feeling is that fixed ropes lowers the bar unnecessarily for such a trip.


Robin

Who replaces the ropes ? Is it just random visitors or is it certain groups with an interest in the mine?


Robin

This is the problem....most people know who rigged most of these mines (it's a small community after all?) but to all intents and purposes it IS random visitors who either rig it or modify/repair/improve it for their own use and it just develops from there. Legally when we enter many (but not all) of these mines, we are all trespassing on the whole, so legal arguments are, I feel, irrelevant. Perhaps what's needed is a code of conduct or "best practice" whereby you rig and de-rig or pull through all your own pitches but human nature being what it is, voluntary codes never last 5 minutes! And where would you draw the line? Removing ropes? Removing rock bolts?! How far do you go in trusting someone else's work? Add in the friendship and "community" angles whereby we are happy to let others benefit from our work and we are soon back to square one!
Like Edd said, "age old debate....no solution".

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Who replaces the ropes ? Is it just random visitors or is it certain groups with an interest in the mine?

I was involved in the retrieval of some one way visitors several years back and my own feeling is that fixed ropes lowers the bar unnecessarily for such a trip.


Robin

Arguably, turning the two pitches into pull-throughs then opens up the possibility that someone who gets into a small amount of bother (no boat, bridge gone for example) then can't get out.

The counter to this is that the pitch has a cord so you can pull a rope back up again, but the odds of that being used correctly are not far short of zero.

And indeed there is a very valid argument that if you haven't got the skills you don't do the trip.

But that overlooks this here Internet, which attracts people from far and wide without the skills to recover from a problem - and without the experience to turn back because they understand this.

So, while the fixed ropes sure aren't the best of ideas, they're perhaps the least worst.

They do, however, rely on people not breaking them; nd removing them if they find them in a poor state before someone who can't deal with the problem gets into a lot of trouble.

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Perhaps the way forward is to follow caving practice with bolt anchors that have been fixed properly and have a regime of inspection - ropes deteriorate and you should not rely on something you have no knowledge of.

If it is known you need the equipment and necessary gear as in caves then that takes away on onus of someone leaving it there either that or as in OFD 1 wire traverses that too are inspected and checked

Mike

Perhaps the way forward is to follow caving practice with bolt anchors that have been fixed properly and have a regime of inspection - ropes deteriorate and you should not rely on something you have no knowledge of.

Mike

Yeah but, no but...... its all very well to sit in a comfortable armchair away form the situation! - the fact is that because the "community" as such is so loose, and unlike the caving world - "unregulated" just EXACTLY who would be appointed to inspect said ropes/anchors etc?? - remember there is a landowner who is responsable for the aboveground, but not the quarries as I understand it (I wait to be corrected on the latter if I'm wrong).

In other parts of the country, there are bodies that are responsable for bolting, fixed aids etc.........

we can go round and round on this one forever!!

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Most are nominated through the Caving bodies in the case Cambrian Caving Council and there are surely people using the place regularly who would take on that role

Take your point from an armchair as I'm unlikely to be able to do trip since the stroke but have done my fair share in the past and therefore am speaking with a lot knowledge and a suggestion for a solution.

The underground would be the owner of the mineral rights but under the NAMHO agreement on exploration of old mines we can explore and therefore why be responsible for fixed aids, far better than dodgy ropes and sooner or later there will be a rescue that brings with it all the pile of outside interferance and crap

Mike a well reasoned reply - so there may be a way foreward, good luck on recovering from your stroke!

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There is a simple solution..... remove the ropes and let people rig them selves and de rig after there trip. Although you then have the propblem of people pulling the ropes through and getting in bother and a rescue being called out. But in all honesty if people are ready to do a pull through then they should be aware of the route and that it is clear to exit. Look at the way Coniston is rigged. Simple ancors for pull throughs and its up to you if you if you leave your rope in place to recover later or take the plunge and pull it through.

There is no real solution as what ever is suggested will end up a huge debate as to what should and shouldnt be done. Its worked as it is for this long i personally think it should stay as it is :thumbsup:

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There is no real solution as what ever is suggested will end up a huge debate as to what should and shouldnt be done. Its worked as it is for this long i personally think it should stay as it is :thumbsup:

Agree!

If you rig a rope and leave it for others to use, do so with a clear conscience :thumbup:
If you come across a roped pitch and decide to use it then let the user beware! If you dont like the look of it just don't use it....make other arrangements :thumbup:
Can't say fairer thatn that can we?

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whats the current state of the boats ?
I cant find mine and might be doing the trip on sunday.
Will take a rope though

whats the current state of the boats ?
I cant find mine and might be doing the trip on sunday.
Will take a rope though

Same as the ropes - take your own just in case.

Chris.

Any chance of an update on the ropes Mountainpenguin? I'm doing the trip again with a small group in 3 weeks so would be handy to know :flowers:

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Sorry due to a large collection of hangovers we didnt go.

I'll be down there next week, i'll let you know what the state of all the aids are on my return.... i'm all out of spare rope now, although, would collect and rig if anyone's willing to donate. I think we should all do our bit for the upkeep if doing the CRTT! even if its a little housework and take a some of dead dinghies out.....

Goose.