SimplyExploring
15 years ago
"Vanoord" wrote:

Welsh legal system? :lol:

We struggle under the legal system imposed by our colonial masters in London! 😉



Get over it, one day you except you was conquered 😉

Buts another story :angel:
Vanoord
15 years ago
"Morlock" wrote:

Mr Vanoord, is your pic "New Beam" the worst bit of the adit?



This one?

🔗Work-weekend-Easter-2008-Image-003[linkphoto]Work-weekend-Easter-2008-Image-003[/linkphoto][/link]

Viewable just in front of the one marked 'D' in this pic:

🔗Work-weekend-Easter-2008-Image-004[linkphoto]Work-weekend-Easter-2008-Image-004[/linkphoto][/link]

That's the most recently replaced one - it replaced a railway sleeper (marked 'C') which had snapped in the middle, but which nevertheless required a fair bit of persuasion to get it out!

The outbye section of the adit has got the worst condition roof, being basically tipped slate, with a lot of voids which are troublesome to say the least. Virtually all of the timbers in that section are no more than two years old, so they're still in mostly decent condition.

Inbye, the roof is a bit more sound, but the timbers are older.
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
jagman
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15 years ago
Looks quite neat in those pictures Vanoord 🙂
Esecialy comapred to the "before" pictures 😉
Morlock
15 years ago
Yep, that's the one. I was trying to get some idea of how much room you have for steel and if it would fit beween the existing props.

Edit: Where are the "Before" pics.
Vanoord
15 years ago
🔗Cwmorthin-Slate-Mine-06-11-2005-Image-012[linkphoto]Cwmorthin-Slate-Mine-06-11-2005-Image-012[/linkphoto][/link]

🔗Cwmorthin-Slate-Mine-06-11-2005-Image-001[linkphoto]Cwmorthin-Slate-Mine-06-11-2005-Image-001[/linkphoto][/link]

Indeed!

(there's a step in the left hand wall that can be used to compare the 'before' and 'after' images)
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
Vanoord
15 years ago
"Morlock" wrote:

Yep, that's the one. I was trying to get some idea of how much room you have for steel and if it would fit beween the existing props.

Edit: Where are the "Before" pics.



Now posted.

From memory, I think it would be possible to put steel props in between the wooden ones and in cases where there isn't room, there's no reason why temporary supports (eg acro props) couldn't be used to create the space for a properly spaced grid to be installed.

Hello again darkness, my old friend...
hymac580c
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15 years ago
Ok, thanks for explaining the situation. Does that mean that there will be court procedings or just a lot of soliciters letters back and fourth to sort thing out?
Anything we can do to help the situation?
Bellach dim ond swn y gwynt yn chwibian, lle bu gynt yr engan ar cynion yn tincian.
Morlock
15 years ago
Impressive bit of repair gentlemen. 🙂

What is the maximum depth of overburden at the point the adit enters good ground?
Vanoord
15 years ago
That's a good question!

Using Grahami's figures:

Lake Level (Floor 1) is at 1055 ft AOD at the adit

Floor 4 North is roughly the top of the tips at 1170 ft

However, the ground slopes down to the adit entrance and then has been tipped on top - making it very difficult to tell where the original ground levels were. The adit is about a third of the way from the left in this pic:

🔗Cwmorthin-Slate-Mine-User-Album-Image-35856[linkphoto]Cwmorthin-Slate-Mine-User-Album-Image-35856[/linkphoto][/link]

The level of the top of the tips is therefore a little over 100' above the floor of the adit.

The adit goes back perhaps 30m before it hits solid rock, which would put it pretty much underneath the floor 4 North Vein adit - so I'd assume it goes from not much overburden to around 100' very sharpish; and then it will get deeper under as it heads into the hillside.
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
jagman
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15 years ago
"hymac580c" wrote:

Ok, thanks for explaining the situation. Does that mean that there will be court procedings or just a lot of soliciters letters back and fourth to sort thing out?
Anything we can do to help the situation?



No nothing like court action or such.
More of a case of sorting out legal responsiblities etc. Its all good natured and mutally advantageous but very slow to sort out.
It will all sort eventually and largely a case of sitting patiently, frustrating as that may be 🙂
jagman
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15 years ago
"Morlock" wrote:

Impressive bit of repair gentlemen. 🙂

What is the maximum depth of overburden at the point the adit enters good ground?



About 90 to 100 feet of loose pack slate.
Its deceptive though and many of the problems are caused by water flow moving the tip so its not just about weight of overburden
derrickman
15 years ago
depth of overburden is only part of the question, anyway.

Classic rock mechanics design relies on calculating the actual volume supported by a given structure, defined by ( among other things ) the cohesion and structural strength of the material and consequent weight otherwise unsupported.

loose, broken tipped slate containing pieces of unspecified size, and unspecified proportion of fines of unknown size distribution, all compacted and settled by gravity over time and lubricated and eroded by indefinite flows of groundwater, leaves you firmly in the 'rule of thumb' and 'local experience' territory
''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change .... oh, I don't know, I've still got a lamp like that.
Vanoord
15 years ago
"derrickman" wrote:

loose, broken tipped slate containing pieces of unspecified size, and unspecified proportion of fines of unknown size distribution, all compacted and settled by gravity over time and lubricated and eroded by indefinite flows of groundwater, leaves you firmly in the 'rule of thumb' and 'local experience' territory



Yup!

That said, it seems to have the most remarkable powers of self support - coupled with an interesting habit of showering you with lumps of rock when you least expect it...
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
Morlock
15 years ago
Thanks gentlemen, even if not in the "Rule Of Thumb" area you are definitely in the "Keep The Acrow Short" area. 🙂
jagman
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15 years ago
"Vanoord" wrote:

"derrickman" wrote:

loose, broken tipped slate containing pieces of unspecified size, and unspecified proportion of fines of unknown size distribution, all compacted and settled by gravity over time and lubricated and eroded by indefinite flows of groundwater, leaves you firmly in the 'rule of thumb' and 'local experience' territory



Yup!

That said, it seems to have the most remarkable powers of self support - coupled with an interesting habit of showering you with lumps of rock when you least expect it...



Remarkable? Un-explainable too! I seem tor recall several of us staring at a sleeper with the middle cut out and wondering why we couldn't get it to fall down......
Vanoord
15 years ago
And not just on the one occasion, either!

I have a horrible mental image of trying to remove lumps of dangling rock by increasingly violent means... 😮
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
derrickman
15 years ago
depending on the exact composition of the broken waste, fines and blocks, it may form a localised concreted mass which shows considerable structural strength

timbers are usually difficult to remove because they will have been put in dry and subsequently swollen as they absorb water, and the surrounding ground will have relaxed, or been compressed, against them. The saturation over time will also swell the grain and make them much harder to cut
''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change .... oh, I don't know, I've still got a lamp like that.
Graigfawr
15 years ago
Visited Cwmorthin on 12 August. Second time to see the wonderful work undertaken at the portal of the Lake Level; remember it well from early 1980s trips when Robin Jones was still working it. Was concerned to see that the collections box had been removed, leaving only three threaded bolts projecting from the wall. Emailed the group to report it and to offer to send my access fee direct but received no reply. Can anyone throw light on the absence of the box and to where I can send a contribution to the steel fund please?
Vanoord
15 years ago
The box, I think, acquired a habit of being broken into, so was removed.

As far as a steel fund is concerned, I don't think such a thing exists, but it's an idea with some merits. I'll ask a couple of people and report back...
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
jagman
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15 years ago
"Vanoord" wrote:

The box, I think, acquired a habit of being broken into, so was removed.

As far as a steel fund is concerned, I don't think such a thing exists, but it's an idea with some merits. I'll ask a couple of people and report back...



Somebdoy went to the lengths of carting a cordless drill all the way up there to drill the lock out of the donations box......
Go figure huh?

If you wish to donate I believe there is a Paypal option to do so on www.cwmorthin.co.uk

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