While on a recent visit to Cwmorthin I had a look in the inside of the floor 2 adit. It has collapsed again at the the same place as before and blocked any way in or out.
So now there is only one way in and out on the Cwmorthin side which is the lake level.
The timbers holding the roof on the lake level adit are exposed to a lot of running water as there is a continuous flow of water running over them.
I was just wondering what the life expectancy of these forestry timbers will be in these conditions. Being saturated in water can only make them soft and weak and eventually collapse.
🔗Floor-2-Adit-work-Image-43110[linkphoto]Floor-2-Adit-work-Image-43110[/linkphoto][/link]
Just seing a log that has been lying on the forestry floor for a couple of years can give you some indication of what will eventually happen.

---

Ultimatly the timbers will be progressively replaced with more suitable materials but it was the best that was available at the time.
When we put them in it was in the hope of getting 5 years or so out of them, being relaced as necessary. Most of them are positioned on slate plinths to try and keep them out of water most of the time.

Haven't looked in the smoke flue recently but will take a look and see what needs doing

I suspect there may be a justification for fundraising specifically to purchase steel for the first section of the adit.

As Hymac says, that wood is certainly not going to last forever.

It may be prudent to have an ask around and see what sort of specs are considered necessary - CATMHS seem particularly competent in that field.

---

Mine props are not really my field but I suspect now is the right time to purchase RSJ/RSC etc?

I think steel would be a good idea now. This is just one example of some people to contact regarding second hand girders as he does a lot of demolition work.
http://www.porthmadogservices.co.uk/ 

---

I would reckon 5 years in a wet environment was quite a good life for untreated timber props.

The ones at Combe Down are around that age, or less in some cases, and they are visibly life-expired.

---

I would reckon 5 years in a wet environment was quite a good life for untreated timber props.

The ones at Combe Down are around that age, or less in some cases, and they are visibly life-expired.

The idea is that they will be progressively replaced with galvanised steel as they age.
When the original broken timbers were replaced the forestry timber was all that was available.
We have left space between the forestry timbers to allow steel to be inserted without the difficulties we encountered of removing them before their replacements can be put in, this was one of the slightly trickier aspects of the original repairs.

In truth, Lake Level is not a great concern, it gets quiet attention as needed and the pine timbers will be replaced as necessary until all the timbers are ultimatley replaced with galvanised steel. Galvy isn't pretty but it is the more permanent solution. We have some that has been kindly donated and we are always out on the look out for more.
In an ideal world we would simply have put steel in from the start and done the job in a much more serious fashion, sadly we don't live in that ideal world 🙂

As circumstances allow the Smoke Flue will also be attended too

Somebody has been up for a look at the smoke flue today and its still clear and accesable

there is a set of Support Rules at Combe Down for doing exactly this. The early supports were timber, then various developments in the nature and concept of the project led to steel. Some timber props were replaced, some sections were built in steel, some retained their timbers to the end.

Some outlying sections, due to be left open as bat habitats, have been replaced with galvanised steel but the main bat habitat at Byfields has been shotcreted.

---

personaly i would rather see traditonal methods used as in pitch pine as it is well tried and tested in harsh mine enviroments.you only have to look ystad einion water wheel to see how well is has lasted.i would have thought its cheaper than steel too and easyer to work with.

---

Somebody has been up for a look at the smoke flue today and its still clear and accesable

Glad it is nothing serious and could be cleared. But from the inner end of the adit from the incline I could see that a load of the red soft rock was blocking the way up. Quite possible that it could have been cleared quite easily by pushing it down with ones feet.
But I felt quite sick when I saw it as I had put in a Sunday with the A.N. crowd to clear the rubish with a pick and shovel some time ago now. There is a lot of water running down from the roof where the fall is so could possibly have washed some of the lose stuff down the hole.

---

personaly i would rather see traditonal methods used as in pitch pine as it is well tried and tested in harsh mine enviroments.you only have to look ystad einion water wheel to see how well is has lasted.i would have thought its cheaper than steel too and easyer to work with.

Where possible we make as few changes as possible.
There is an awful lot of weight above Lake Level

My opinion would be that steel is going to be the way to go as it's probably the only way that the adit can be sorted properly and that the roof can be supported adequately.

Whilst it is a Victorian slate mine, much of the outer part of the adit is relatively recent.

From my point of view, I'd much prefer to be working with steel under that roof than timers as we have been doing up to now. It would enable us to work a lot more safely and - critically - to (i) link supports longitudinally; and (ii) potentially get the roof more even.

I don't see the work being a quick job, either: it would benefit from a concrete plinth along each wall to underpin the masonry walls; and to lift the bases of the beams out of the running water.

---

A steel frame could be built under the present timbers which would save labour and be safer than removing the present timbers.
If nothing is done nature will take care of it by rot and gravity and down the roof will come.
Whatever is done I think we all should be united on the issue instead of several small groups of people that may have their own interpretation of what should be done and who should do it.
Money could be raised if an estimated price for steel can be made.
You then could then set a target for donations and it be shown as the donations climb towards the target amount.
More people would take an interest then as they would know what their money is being used for.

---

Excuse my ignorance but what is the lake level adit driven through, looks like tip material from the pics?

Excuse my ignorance but what is the lake level adit driven through, looks like tip material from the pics?

Yes, the outer 30 yards or so anyway then its into stable rock.

A steel frame could be built under the present timbers which would save labour and be safer than removing the present timbers.
If nothing is done nature will take care of it by rot and gravity and down the roof will come.
Whatever is done I think we all should be united on the issue instead of several small groups of people that may have their own interpretation of what should be done and who should do it.
Money could be raised if an estimated price for steel can be made.
You then could then set a target for donations and it be shown as the donations climb towards the target amount.
More people would take an interest then as they would know what their money is being used for.

you make it all sound so easy 😉

I can tell you now, nothing is that easy when it comes to Cwm. Firstly to build a frame under the present wood supports cant be done due to conditions set out by the mine owner. We would loose to much room and that is something the owner does not want. It was agreed from the beginning we would not change the adit size. Things would be hell of alot easier if we could.

The FOC was hoping to push forward this year with alot of work, but for the last 12 months we have been tied up in legal red tape. This is still on going and we can only go as fast as the welsh legal system lets us. Even though FOC is still in control of the mine we have been asked to stop all work untill the current issue is sorted out. So as you can see its not FOC dragging there feet but rather having our hand tied behind our backs unable to do anything :curse:

As Jagman has said the new wood timbers were/are a stop gap untill funds are in place for steal work to replace them.

The other problem is, that everyone has a opinion to how it should be done. Everyone is a expert! But unfortunately its the 4 leading people behind FOC that are in the firing line when it all goes wrong.

We are still very determined to sort the problems at Cwm and get back on track. We are just as if not more frustrated to get things moving again.

Oh happy days ::)

Thanks Simply, that explains a lot for the un-informed such as myself.

Welsh legal system? :lol:

We struggle under the legal system imposed by our colonial masters in London! 😉

---

Mr Vanoord, is your pic "New Beam" the worst bit of the adit?