I am considering buying a bungalow in the Carbis Bay area in the St Ives of Cornwall.

The property in question is about 30 metres from Higgs shaft on one side and about 20 metres from Dunstans shaft on the other side. There is a shallow adit at about 25 fathoms that runs under the property and a deep adit at 80 fathoms.

The mineral lode criss crosses the property North South.

Although there is a detailed structural survey for the property that says there are no sign of subsidence and no damage visible, I am a bit reluctant to go ahead with the sale.

What does concern me is that on an American mine forum, it says there was a collapse in someone's drive 10 years ago in the same road!

As the estate is quite new (under 50 years) I presume the shafts were capped off with concrete as opposed to wooden sleepers to comply with building regs at that time.

I just wondered if anyone had any more info about this area and if its worth the risk of buying, which is to be a cash sale.

Also like to know if anyone knows what year this estate was built?

The property is situated over the waste dump between Higgs Shaft and Dunstans shaft as shown in the image here.

http://postimg.org/image/56mvp8grl/ 

....I presume the shafts were capped off with concrete as opposed to wooden sleepers to comply with building regs at that time....

Never "presume" anything.

Hello

My name is Sue and I was just reading Andy's post above about the mine shafts running underneath the house he was thinking of purchasing.

I too would like to move to Carbis Bay but am wary of the mine shafts too.

I would be very interested in reading your pm to Andy if this is ok as any help and advice would be appreciated.

Thank you and with best wishes,

Sue

Yep, registering just for some free advice does irk me somewhat...

Go through the usual channels for advice and a proper report. Or do the leg work and get down to the CRO etc and find the information for yourself, I will happily give tips etc on where and how to find the information, but I'm not going to spoon feed it for someone who is going to get the information and never be seen again.

This is a website for people with an interest in mining and the history of it, not for house buyers looking for some quick free advice. Give and take and all that, I don't see any giving in exchange for the taking of the information we have all spent a lot of time and effort finding....

Maybe a sizeable donation to the local Rescue team might persuade people to be a bit more forthcoming with information.

The best policy I believe, when receiving property-related requests, is to ONLY deal with the property owners or occupiers. Providing advice or information that could affect property values or sale prospects could lead to "problems", especially if you are not properly qualified or insured to do so. Beware. You might think you are being helpful, but if you interfere with the normal channels of property research, you are putting yourself at risk. Even dealing with owners/occupiers can have issues!

And any advice should certainly never appear on a publicly viewable website.

the OP's map links a tad spammy too, opened two new browser windows, and tried to make me download a William Hill app!!:thumbdown:

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My apologies if I made you feel aggrieved by my question, that was not my intention.

I live almost 300 miles away and I look after my very elderly mum.

Much of my previous job has been voluntary and two months ago I made a donation to the RNLI.

I am 60 years old and never expected anything for free in my life, even though I give freely of whatever I can to people in need.

Thank you for the advice that was given, it is appreciated.

With kind regards,

Sue

Yep, registering just for some free advice does irk me somewhat...

Go through the usual channels for advice and a proper report. Or do the leg work and get down to the CRO etc and find the information for yourself, I will happily give tips etc on where and how to find the information, but I'm not going to spoon feed it for someone who is going to get the information and never be seen again.

This is a website for people with an interest in mining and the history of it, not for house buyers looking for some quick free advice. Give and take and all that, I don't see any giving in exchange for the taking of the information we have all spent a lot of time and effort finding....

Maybe a sizeable donation to the local Rescue team might persuade people to be a bit more forthcoming with information.

Well said :thumbsup:

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My apologies if I made you feel aggrieved by my question, that was not my intention.

I live almost 300 miles away and I look after my very elderly mum.

Much of my previous job has been voluntary and two months ago I made a donation to the RNLI.

I am 60 years old and never expected anything for free in my life, even though I give freely of whatever I can to people in need.

Thank you for the advice that was given, it is appreciated.

With kind regards,

Sue

Hi Sue,

Im not sure if the RNLI have ever made any Mine or Cave rescues that I am aware of.

As i am sure you can understand it takes years to research and gather the information you are looking for, and I think it seriously takes the mick alot of new home buyers coming on to the site to take all the information for free, and never come back without so much as a thank you. There are proper channels for mining reports and these should be followed unless in the instance there is some information on there you need clarifying.

I doubt "some guys on a mining forum told me" would cut the mustard with the insurance company when your house sinks!

I wouldn't be particularly worried about mining features to be honest, my house is built on a very un stable mine feature that no mining surveys picked up... The surveys will only pick up known mining features, so if they don't have a record of it they wont include it on the survey, and there is always the get out clause in the small print then too! :thumbup:

If you are worried about the mining features, then cornwall isn't the place for you!

Good luck on your mining report, and if you need any help interpreting the report then by all means ask again.

Stu is this the place to be offering informal or formal services for mining reports/inspections? Again I would disagree that it probably is not intended for this purpose and what form of liability would the admin have for this advice should anything go awry?

... which brings us around to another thread on another forum, about posting under various names.

I never post on here under my own name, although there are people on here who know who I am. The reason is simple.

I'm a Chartered Engineer with a professional interest in the subject. I publish occasionally in professional journals which I do under my own name, on the basis that (1) anything published there is copyright (2) anything published is subject to peer review (3) anything so published is published on the clear basis that it is NOT "professional advice" to anyone

So, on webgroups which don't meet those criteria, or where I am expressing an opinion outside my professional speciality, or simply being nosey, facetious or plain grumpy, I don't publish under my own name or particularly, use any post-nominals.

It's a clear and simple distinction and one which I expect us followed by others in the same position

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My apologies if I made you feel aggrieved by my question, that was not my intention.

I live almost 300 miles away and I look after my very elderly mum.

Much of my previous job has been voluntary and two months ago I made a donation to the RNLI.

I am 60 years old and never expected anything for free in my life, even though I give freely of whatever I can to people in need.

Thank you for the advice that was given, it is appreciated.

With kind regards,

Sue

Hi Sue,

Im not sure if the RNLI have ever made any Mine or Cave rescues that I am aware of.

As i am sure you can understand it takes years to research and gather the information you are looking for, and I think it seriously takes the mick alot of new home buyers coming on to the site to take all the information for free, and never come back without so much as a thank you. There are proper channels for mining reports and these should be followed unless in the instance there is some information on there you need clarifying.

I doubt "some guys on a mining forum told me" would cut the mustard with the insurance company when your house sinks!

I wouldn't be particularly worried about mining features to be honest, my house is built on a very un stable mine feature that no mining surveys picked up... The surveys will only pick up known mining features, so if they don't have a record of it they wont include it on the survey, and there is always the get out clause in the small print then too! :thumbup:

If you are worried about the mining features, then cornwall isn't the place for you!

Good luck on your mining report, and if you need any help interpreting the report then by all means ask again.

Stu is this the place to be offering informal or formal services for mining reports/inspections? Again I would disagree that it probably is not intended for this purpose and what form of liability would the admin have for this advice should anything go awry?

I fully believe (and administrators correct me if I'm wrong) that this site is for the friendly exchange of information between anyone with an interest in mining, whether it be from an explorers point of view or any other.
Most of the information members would be offering is in the public domain anyway, and quoting from those sources is not going to libel anyone so long as it is made clear that the data has been sourced thus, so that they may go and check for themselves.
To round on someone for asking questions on this forum, regardless of why they are asking, is to my mind antisocial at the very least.
Advice is a totally different beast, and should be taken from companies specialising in mining searches and suchlike.
Great care should also be taken about asking for a donation to a rescue group or whatever in exchange for information. This could be seen in law as a sale, and as such liabilities could be attached.
It should be welcomed that people come to this site as a starting point for their enquiries, and who knows? it may just trigger an interest in the history of mining in the county, they may even buy a plot of land containing an open shaft or adit and look for someone to offer information on exploring.
So don't knock the casual enquirer, and put yourself in their position; you need to start somewhere and where better than the internet?
Let's see a little more friendliness toward the uninformed and not get too swell headed about what we have learned over our years of study. :flowers:

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Roy... The last two paragraphs in your post say it all. Thankyou! :thumbup:

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Well said Roy.

Lozz.

Yes Roy, well said.

Yep, registering just for some free advice does irk me somewhat...

I thought the whole point of a Forum was to share information?

What information I have received, from a very kind member of this Forum (privately) has answered all my questions in more ways than I thought possible. :thumbsup:

My contribution to the forum are these two photos taken in 1938 of the providence mining area in Carbis Bay before the bungalows where built. I hope members might find them interesting, I know I did!

Apologies if the links seem spammy, but I don't know how else to post photos on here!

1st photo shows the remains of the Higgs Shaft engine house. The second photo, you can see the same engine house up on the hill in the distance next to the pile of mine waste.

On the second photo, there is also what looks like a smaller engine house or something over to the left of Higgs. Anyone know what that might have been?

http://postimg.org/image/7qn2luajd/ 

http://postimg.org/image/nqcxg77lb/ 

The general concept of sharing information is laudable. And by and large it is of little consequence.

Sometimes, you do have to use some common sense, however.

Put yourself in the position of a property owner, on or close to a mine. Now consider that there is no definite evidence that your house it at risk. Now someone, probably anonymous and unqualified, comes along and tells a potential buyer that IN HIS OPINION, there is likely to be ancient workings close below the house. Without the definite evidence of this, and without proper surveying and historical research, your property may have been devalued and a potential sale may have been compromised, all through unsubstantiated comment. That's why one must be careful when making statements in such circumstances. Facts are fine on the whole, but opinions and doubts are probably worth keeping to yourself.

If in doubt, pick up your yellow pages and ask someone who is backed up by insurance.

I do sometimes wonder about aditnow. It seems many a good debate ends in tittle tattle.

Thanks for your input Andy, your photos are really interesting. The second one shows the huge tip being really huge....I wonder if it was dragged off for reprocessing, spread around, used for aggregate or bulldozed down Dunstan's Shaft. This is the sort of fascinating thing we are on here for. If you look over towards the point, even then was there no sign of Wheal Margery....absent from all of the OS maps, but very very clearly detailed and very much under things over there.

I'm going to brighten things up by quoting Cyril Noall regarding mining in St Ives. It makes me feel special to study this, a century or so after mining ceased there.

In 1879 - "Nothing is plainer than that we are passing through a period of transition at St Ives. Why? A miner going over the road is almost as rare a sight as a kilted highlander, though we used to meet them every day going to and from bal, in droves. The ruins of mines in full work and paying dividends a few years ago, everywhere meet the eye, not as picturesquely but quite as forlorn as the ruins of ancient cities, The old stamps, whose rattling sound was always dinning in your ears, morning noon and night are now as silent as the grave. Mines and Miners have passed away like a dream and the next generation will be asking the meaning of all those ruined houses and those monster piles of rubbish".

Move on 130 years and the ruined houses and huge tips have been replaced with premium property. The plans which were drawn in those long gone offices are now in the record office and it is incredible to step through time and touch the very stuff history is made from. This for me is the absolute stuff of amazement and brain-food. Many people haven't got a clue that Carbis Bay was heavily mined. Some are surprised to find their house sits on top of a hole!

The process and small print of various services is interesting and I advise those interested to get a copy of one and read it carefully. It will (if you really concentrate) enlighten you about liability, duty of care and who pays if something screws up. Note that the structure of these activities is shaped by the atomic perusal of the PI insurance small print!

Anyway. Those being really interested in mining should join one of the local societies.

A lovely posting Stu. Is says a lot.

I have a personal fascination with the area and keep returning time after time.

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A lovely posting Stu. Is says a lot.

I agree :thumbup:

And here is a close up view of Higgs Engine house taken from the other side. You can just make out the waste dump to the left of the photo.

http://postimg.org/image/t7q0agw8n/ 

These are awesome images! Which archive are they from?

A while ago, someone made a comment about the variety in the construction of engine houses and how that reflects the company which constructed them. Windows being a very obvious feature. Some of the engine houses (like Reade's 70 at Hallenbeagle) are functional buildings and some, like that at East Pool (winder) are a bit more flash....running all the way through to serious pieces of architecture, like Tregurtha Downs.

They've done a nice job with the windows on that one, suggesting they weren't really scraping when they set up.

[photo]Personal-Album-14777-Image-96465[/photo]

Since we are here, I'd thought I'd add this one. You have what appears to be Higgs Shaft winder in the centre of the pic, either stamps or a crusher on the right and the engine house in the middle is unknown. It's about where Higg's Engine should be and where it appears to be in the pictures, but the one in the MRO plan shows it rotated 90 degrees.

The great thing about this hobby is that you can go into as much detail as you want (in a lot of cases). Somewhere, there will be the drawings for the engine and the minute books outlining what they proposed to do. It's possible that the engine on the plan was an earlier one and they mucked about with it. I haven't got time to go trawling through the mining journal right now!

If that engine was in the position we see in the photographs, it would have almost been impossible to use it to wind from Higgs' Shaft, unless they had done a St Just United style massive headgear and slung the cables over the top of the pumping house....this is highly unlikely though!