Nebra Disc and Cornish Metals · AditNow Community

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angieweekender
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13 years ago

i know this is a bit out of date but did anyone see this at the National Maritime Museum
http://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/2012-bc-cornwall-and-sea-in-bronze-age.html#.UGSm4FGTeVo

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Roy Morton
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13 years ago

A wonderful artifact and the fact that the materials were sourced in the county adds extra weight to Cornwall being Pliny's 'Cassiterides'.
A pity it didn't give a specific location as to where it was discovered.
I think there may have been a typo in the text however.
I believe that Canon Down may have meant to have been Carnon Downs, and more specificaly the Carnon Valley, where gold has been found and tin and copper deposits were quite shallow in places.
Copper is not found in 'abundance' throughout the county and workable deposits with the tools of 2000 BC, would have been relatively few.
Personally I think that the gold and tin was from the Carnon valley and the copper - which I'm thinking would have been Native Copper - from outcrop workings in Gwennap.
Anyone elses thoughts on this one?

"You Chinese think of everything!"
"But I''m not Chinese!"
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AR
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13 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebra_disc

Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!

angieweekender
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13 years ago

the disc itself was found in Germany. Which begs the question -was the disc made in Cornwall or were the metals transported and the disc made in Germany. It is generally thought that the neolithic gabbro(Lizard Clay) pots were made on the Lizard and transported/traded to where they were found ie Windmill Hill, Wiltshire /Hembury Hill Devon. i am not saying for a moment that this is the case with the disc -but one can dream that it was also made in Cornwall. and the context of the bronze age landscapes- they dont exist anywhere else (apart from Brittany) outside of the UK- its my belief that they were very much associated with mining-if you look at Conrwall in particular and look at the distribution of mining you also find prehistory side by side-too much of a coincidence for me. Speculative I know but i like dreaming.

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droid
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13 years ago

"angieweekender" wrote:
and the context of the bronze age landscapes- they dont exist anywhere else (apart from Brittany) outside of the UK.

You ARE dreaming if you believe Bronze Age landscapes only exist in the areas you mention.

Southern Ireland is littered with them, and the Netherlands, Belgium, France (as well as Brittany) and Germany all have them.

Prehistory and mining tend to be side by side because many mines were in rather mountainous areas. Areas that don't favour the sort of agriculture and development that destroys prehistoric remains, and have done since Roman times. So the remains are still there and give a false impression of proximity.

There's no reason why either the disc or the metals couldn't have been exported from Cornwall, or Great Orme come to that. There was an extensive trade network in the BA that wasn't stopped by quite substantial sea passages.

angieweekender
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13 years ago

i apologise for my lack of clarity. you are correct there Droid. The sorts of bronze age landscapes i was thinking about are the henge monuments-they exist nowhere else except the British Isles-sorry i wasnt specific.

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droid
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13 years ago

Henges are found in Ireland too, but i agree they're a British Isles phenomenon.

And Arbor Low is less than half a mile from Long Rake.... 😉

carnkie
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13 years ago

"droid" wrote:

"angieweekender" wrote:

There was an extensive trade network in the BA that wasn't stopped by quite substantial sea passages.

The evidence for that statement?
The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.

droid
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13 years ago

Sunken BA boats complete with bronze ingots.

Also, it's possible to find the source of the metals using characteristic impurity content. The presence of Irish bronze and gold in places other than Ireland, and British metals on the Continent....they weren't flown over.... :lol:

Let's face it, if these guys had worked out mining and metallurgy, then sea-going boats shouldn't have been a problem.

carnkie
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13 years ago

#10

"droid" wrote:
Sunken BA boats complete with bronze ingots.

Also, it's possible to find the source of the metals using characteristic impurity content. The presence of Irish bronze and gold in places other than Ireland, and British metals on the Continent....they weren't flown over.... :lol:

Let's face it, if these guys had worked out mining and metallurgy, then sea-going boats shouldn't have been a problem.

Sunken BA boats possibly only points to short distance trading with other parts of Britain and perhaps Ireland and certainly up to the 1970s the great weight of evidence clearly points to the fact that Cornish tin didn't become an article for international trade until about 500. B. C. which is why the Disc is so interesting.

The impurity, namely germanium and cobalt has been known about for many years but given that the tin deposits of Spain and central Germany were worked from the beginning of the BA and these industries were the major source of supply for the bronze industries of the eastern Mediterranean one wonders why they needed Cornish tin. Again that's what makes this Disc very interesting.

The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.

droid
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13 years ago

#11

You'll be familiar with 'the Amesbury Archer' no doubt.

Oxygen isotope testing shows that this person was born on tthe continent. How did he get to Wiltshire? Swim?

The Great Orme posesses extensive copper workings. Ask yourself, would it have been easier to import tin from Spain or Germany, or source it from Cornwall?

A quick Wiki: recent research (2010) states that both the gold and the tin in the disc were sourced in Cornwall.

carnkie
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13 years ago

#12

"droid" wrote:

The Great Orme posesses extensive copper workings. Ask yourself, would it have been easier to import tin from Spain or Germany, or source it from Cornwall?

A quick Wiki: recent research (2010) states that both the gold and the tin in the disc were sourced in Cornwall.

I'm not disputing Cornish or British BA industry. In fact I'm not disputing anything merely chewing over the evidence.

And yes I know the tin in the disc was sourced in Cornwall which is why I repeatably keep saying that's what makes it interesting. Unfortunately evidence of BA trade of metals to Europe is very thin on the ground to put it mildly.

The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.

droid
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13 years ago

#13

Yes, I can see the point that you're making. 😉
The Nebra Disc is pretty unique. Maybe part of that uniqueness is the source of its metals?

angieweekender
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13 years ago

#14

Salcombe BA wreck
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/8515627.stm

as time passes more evidence comes to light. Not only was there trade in the Ba but also in the neolithic-a Green jadeite axe from Switzerland ended up on the Sweet track, 4000BC, in Somerset.

I make pottery from tailings and slimes 🅱[center]

angieweekender
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13 years ago

#15

The past doesn't really exist and if it does it is either in artefacts texts or in our minds which all exist in the present. To dream up questions to ask of an object like the nebra disc is an entierly valid intellectual past time as far as I am concerned. If we dont ask questions we will never get any answers. On reflection I do think that the disc was actually made in Germany where the copper was sourced.

I make pottery from tailings and slimes 🅱[center]