I have noticed that some engine houses in Cornwall (even seen references to) have slotted style windows such as in Prosper Utd, Tregurtha Downs. It has even been said to have been a trait local to that area (local builder?) however we have East Wheal Rose built in the same style and Okel Tor Stamps (and some lost houses such as the one at Agar) which are well out of that area... My question is were certain common contractors used to build the engine houses on behalf of the engine manufacturer or mine companies, hence their own style?
On my travels you can see in certain areas that the design features of one engine house mimic others such as above... is this due to the same contractors being used as it obviously is with Tregurtha and Marazion? Did the engine manufacturers provide the engine houses to?, did they design then sub it out? Were there family builders for example that specialised in engine houses? My problem is I get the feeling that with such a specialist build required for these houses it would not be something that you'd simply sub out to 'Fred the builder at Gwennap' say.
Your opinions and any help re sources on this wood be hugely appreciated as this has been on my mind for years but I have found scant references to date. Thanks.
:thumbsup:

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I'd initially suggest that the plans for the building would probably be based on others and thus there would be a resemblance?

If the builder had experience elsewhere, then that would also account for the similarity, as I suspect they'd dust off the most recent plans they'd used and re-use them on the new site.

Presumably if I have a look I'll find the relevant pics and compare them, but I'm a bit snowed under at work at the moment!

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I take it you have The Cornish Beam Engine by DB Barton?

That has a fair chunk on engine houses.

Me too work wise.... Argentina next week!!!

I've been debating this one for some time and I think Spitfire will be replying later with what he knows.
I'm intrigued as every engine would be design build (even if adapted from std designs) but the architecture can only be visually copied to a degree but in some cases is more or less identical....its an interesting one, thus begging the questions I raised re common contractors for the build but the design would need to satisfy the mine and the engine builder, who designed the structure, the mine engineer? the contractor? the engine builder? . I done a lot of looking in the SW and you can see certain localised building traits but then an EH will pop up almost identical style many miles away.
I'm just trying to get an idea of how things were contracted out etc. ?
Nice to hear from you.

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I also await spitfires comments with interest but one smalll comment. In the 2003 TS Journal there is a seven page article by Foster, D. "Architectural peculiarities of some engine houses and mine stacks in Cornwall."
This link probably no real help at all but maybe worth a look.

http://www.cornish-mining.org.uk/story/enginehouse.htm 

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It could be that the engine was moved and an identical engine house was constructed for it.

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The Trevithick Society are holding a photo exhibition in Camborne at the moment. Popped in there just now and got talking to Kingsley Rickard and Peter Joseph (curator) two worthies of the Society. I think KR has been studying Industrial Archaelogy for about 50 years, similar to spitfire. Anyway I asked the obvious question(s) and just listened. This is the gist if I can remember it all.
The engineer will decide on the design of the essential parts of the engine house, namely the size, the interior and structure. This will obviously depend on the size and type of engine. Once this is done the outside architecture is up to the mine owner/manager to add design features that he sees fit. Local stone, possibly the remains of another engine house, would be used and local builders employed. In the case of very large mines they may even have had there own workforce.
When an engine was moved, as they were frequently, certain parts of the interior were required to go as well including the bedstone. KR rattled off a list but my retention capacity is pretty low these days. Some stonework may also accompany the move depending on the distance I suppose. When the Prestongrange engine was moved from Old Wheal Neptune Mine to Great Western Mines it says that they also removed a large quantity of stone from there for building the new engine house. The specifications for this would have to be the same as the engineers original but again the outside architecture would be up to the owner.
Taylor’s EH at Pool is a bit of a hybrid. If you look around the right hand side high up you will see a stone with CB carved on it. If the drain pipe doesn’t get in the way. Originally it was at Carn Brea.

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What Vanoord and Gus wrote on the subject would be the common sense way of doing things, alas this was not so,I've yet to see two enine houses that are identical (in Cornwall that is) Just look at the difference between Tregurtha Downs and Robinsons' at Crofty and yet they both housed the same engine. The remarks made by kingsley about the bedstone being removed to go with a engine to another mine is pure myth. The bedstone would be the last thing to be removed and the first to be installed, therefore there would be an engine in bits on the ground waiting for an engine house to be built, trust me, that did not happen. The engine was removed and installed in its new house that would be waiting for it. To prove this look at Grenvilles ninety house the bedstone is still in situ as is Tregurtha Downs and many others I can think of.
As regards to design, this was often left to the mines engineer or consultant engineer. One consultant that sprins to mind is N Trestrail who designed the house at Lylles Basset mines as well as Prince of Wales at Pheonix. G Eustace was another that designed the miners dry at Levant.
As for builders there was one man from Redruth named Daw who is credited with building over fifty houses.
Architects were seldom employed, East Wheal Rose and Tregurtha Downs amongst a few others being rare examples.
The speed at which a ouse was built is quite amazing for a ninety inch engine it would be about six to eight weeks. A mine engineer once told me the weight of such a house would be about five thousand tons!
A rule of thumb measurment for the chimney would be one foot for every inch of cylinder this would only apply to pumping engines.
I hope this has answered a few questions

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Thanks for that spitfire. Very informative. I hope I'm not misquoting Kingsley. :blink: One thing still puzzles me though; in the article on the Prestongrange engine it says:

"The scene now shifts two miles to the east. In May 1869 we learn in a report from the newly-formed Great Western Mines: 'Thomas' engine shaft has been enlarged, timbered, cased and divided from surface to deep adit ... At surface we have taken out the 70-inch engine from Old Wheal Neptune Mine and removed it with the two boilers to a convenient spot for refixing; also removed a large quantity of stone from there for building the new enginehouse ...' So the house went with the engine."

This I believe from MJ May 1869.

I take it then this would be a very isolated action?

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It would indeed, hence the number of engine houses still in the county. I have phoned Kingsley and explained about the bedstone and he now agrees with me.

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Thanks for that Spitfire.... Do you think that there were many such specialised builders such as Mr Daw? I can perfectly imagine consultant engineers designing the houses to fit around the engines and directing his trusted version of 'Mr Daws' to build it. So it would make sense that some engine houses would be of similar architecture, consultants such as those would have a good deal 'of out the book calcs and drawings' allowing them to develop solutions based on previous build.
So I guess typically -

1. Mine engineer or consultantspecs the Engine
2. Engine builder designs, scopes and builds the engine
3. Mine either designs required house or employs consultant to do so.
4. Mine Engineer or Consultant employs contractor to build house, who aquires materials from where he can or where he is told to.
5. Engine manufacturer fits and commissions engine in conjunction with Mine engineer and/or consultant.

In Project terms this would have been a large undertaking even for a small engine and its a sobering thought to a Project Engineer/Manager such as myself that this was accomplished without the aid of laser levels, heavy plant and machinery yet was in the main ultimately successful. fabulous given the use of horsepower and blocks and tackle and the odd level.
Just as an aside, wasn't part of Wheal Metals (Iveys 85") EH bob wall moved from Trelawneys shaft at Wheal Vor when the 85" engine moved to Wheal Metal?.
:thumbsup:

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The engineer would nine times out of ten design the engine as well as the house. the plans of which would then be passed to the foundry and the chosen builder. In the case of a second hand engine being used then measurments would be made and the house built to size. The last time this was done was in 1939 when South Crofty fearing enemy action on the mine purchased the engine that was still at Wheal Busy, as things turned out it was never needed and at the end of the war the engine was scrapped.
One thing that I did forget was when remarking on the speed at which these houses were built. In about 1869 a new engine house was built for North Roskear Mine. The day after the scaffolding was removed the whole lot fell down!

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I was nowhere near.... oh no .... not me!!! Must have been the drawings.... :lol:

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The engineer would nine times out of ten design the engine as well as the house. the plans of which would then be passed to the foundry and the chosen builder. In the case of a second hand engine being used then measurments would be made and the house built to size. The last time this was done was in 1939 when South Crofty fearing enemy action on the mine purchased the engine that was still at Wheal Busy, as things turned out it was never needed and at the end of the war the engine was scrapped.
One thing that I did forget was when remarking on the speed at which these houses were built. In about 1869 a new engine house was built for North Roskear Mine. The day after the scaffolding was removed the whole lot fell down!

Must have been a Camborne builder 🙂

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