Regards the bats being able to get out, they may be able to make it to the open shaft but flooding to the south of the fault can almost touch the roof so it would be very tricky for them and impossible if the flooding touches the roof. It's also some distance so I don't know if the bats would be able to find it. Water levels seem to be quite low this year so they'd have a chance.

I would really like to see a bat-pipe put in as a matter of urgency. Access for humans can be added later if that's something that the landower can agree on. I was advised not to contact the Estate on this very subject some years ago as it would have just drawn attention to our activities.

This may not be a popular thing to say but this may be a blessing in disguise. When I first visited these mines they were pristine, exactly as the miners left them. Over the last couple of years too many arrows and other marks have sprung up on the walls so this at least stops that happening anymore. If controlled access can be negotiated then this will help prevent any further decay to these fantastic mines.

Please let me know if there's anything I can do to help.

Has anyone checked the status of the neighbouring mines? Think I'm right in thinking that the estate owns the land for all of them? So if Church is sealed, then the others must be at risk-esp as being the more 'popular' traffic sites. If they seal the oldest in particular that would be an awful blow, so much to see there...and *lots* of bats 😞

Some internet sites have a *lot* to answer for, mentioning no names...another site lost as a result of the willy waving 😠

J

Yes, rest were ok 24 hours ago, heard they might all go though.
Yep, they own land for four.

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It just gets worse, well from the point of view of the people who are doing this. Look at this:

Penalties on conviction - the maximum fine is £5,000 per incident or per bat (some roosts contain several hundred bats), up to six months in prison, and forfeiture of items used to commit the offence, eg vehicles, plant, machinery.

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Probably equates to 50 hours Community Service if the landowner is in the same Lodge as the Judge/Magistrate.

And even less if they are a Stonecutter 😮

Bats or no bats, does not change the fact that the hole has been filled in and is blocked.
Perhaps someone could talk with the landowners and try to get the hole cleared and nagotiate some kind of access.

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Did you not read the rest of the thread then?

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Yes, sorry about that. From what I can see there is no easy solution especially if the landowner has pheasants etc around the mine enterance.

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I do have some sympathy for the landowner, but there is no escaping the fact that the mines are there and that issues relative to this fact will arise.

What has been done is blatantly illegal however, and at this time that is problem no 1 from the landowners point of view.
The mine must be put back to the state that it was before, and if necessary a grill fitted to prevent access.
However, that will then be the start of a tug of war similar to Cwmystwyth between the landowner and people who turn up with hacksaws.
The only solution will then be some kind of dialog between the landowner and interested parties.
Maintaining underground access is desirable also from the landowners point of view as this would enable inspections relative to any instability that could effect the ground above.
The mines will not go away.

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Hi Roy,
You make some fair comments there and if youv'e no objection I could use these statements in my ongoing dialogue with the landowner. I'm sure what has occured is a knee jerk reaction to the present situation. After talking with a representative of the estate the main concern was their liability if anyone got hurt. I am talking with them as a matter of urgency to resolve both the bat issue and access. I will keep you infomed of progress.

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Hi Mr Rustydog

Yes, go ahead and feel free.
Further, I would be prepared to attend any meeting arranged to attempt to resolve the situation. As you are possibly aware I may be setting up a charitable trust to take possession of the Cwmystwyth mines from the Crown Estate, therefore may well be able to make a positive contribution to any diaolog with the landowner.

It is 1 hours drive for me from where I live, all M6 and A14, no problems.

The only other comment I can make at this time is that this event is now all over the Internet, as well as on here it is also being discussed on Mine Explorer and Dark Places. The chances of the bat people not getting to hear about it are getting slimmer by the day.
I am not going to cause any trouble as long as there is dialog, but the situation looks a bit grim.

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I have sent pm. The offer of attending a meeting if it can be arranged would be welcome. Your knowledge of the official documentational side could be very useful. Thanks.

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I have managed to speak to someone from the estate regarding the bat issue. This was taken into consideration and advice sought. The backfill consists of large pieces of rock leaving many cavities which the bats can crawl through. The site has been monitored daily since the backfilling and bats have been observed entering and leaving the site. Regarding aforementioned burying explorers, notices were posted two days prior to the operation. These were updated the day before the backfil and on the day men entered the mine calling out for responses. Possibly not the best plan in the world but there you have it. The bat entry and egress might not be ideal but at least they can use the mine. Hopefully a better solution can be obtained in the coming days.

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Read this:

http://www.ptes.org/files/1275_bats_and_cave_grilles.pdf 

The effect of slightly different bar spacing (150mm - 130mm) on deterring bats from using a site is discussed. I will not comment on the statement about bats crawling through blocks of concrete in the depths of the hibernating season!

There are probably many more good reliable scientific reports out there to be read - this was the first that I found.

http://jncc.defra.gov.uk/pdf/batwork_manualpt4.pdf 

Read the bit about grilles and the importance of getting it right, and the process required to go about getting one fitted, permissions, and who should be consulted. I am not sure that a pile of concrete blocks fits any of the descriptions here!

Protocols get sidestepped in a lot of cases.

Hallenbeagle Copper Mine (scorrier-Cornwall) is one I noted was due to be plugged for a new industrial estate and has an open shaft which leads to some interesting stopes with bat dung.

A chat with some official people suggested that the environmental survey may have been "misplaced" or something along those lines....

We shall see. When they do get around to it, I'd put money on them still getting the shafts plugged they way they originally wanted.

All of this legislation seems to only apply to public works.

I'd like to have confidence in the system, but in a lot of cases, I don't think it really makes a lot of difference.

However, at a Devon Copper Mine, a plugged shaft was made to be unplugged by angry legal people following some bat excitement.

Sadly, they put a bat grille on, but didn't actually unblock the shaft!

Aaaanyway.

I have managed to speak to someone from the estate regarding the bat issue. This was taken into consideration and advice sought. The backfill consists of large pieces of rock leaving many cavities which the bats can crawl through. The site has been monitored daily since the backfilling and bats have been observed entering and leaving the site.

I take it you haven't seen this with your own eyes? This stuff wasn't 'placed' in a calculated manner in my opinion. Yes there are some small gaps but I doubt very much they go all the way back easily.....I wouldn't fancy my chances if I was a bat.....they can hardly come and go as they please.

So is this 'it' then for this location?

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If the local bat group have no concerns over the way it has been blocked then there is nothing to get concerned over. If they do have concerns, then the proper course I imagine is for them to discuss the matter with Natural England. That's how those I know in the bat world would probably go about things.

I take it you haven't seen this with your own eyes? This stuff wasn't 'placed' in a calculated manner in my opinion. Yes there are some small gaps but I doubt very much they go all the way back easily.....I wouldn't fancy my chances if I was a bat.....they can hardly come and go as they please.

So is this 'it' then for this location?

No I haven't seen it. I along with my friends decided not to go near Church during the game season so as not to antagonise the gamekeeper by disturbing his pheasants. Just another way of trying to play ball with the landowner.

And no this is not 'it'. I am still trying to get the Adit unblocked using dialogue as a matter of urgency, with the view to keeping it that way. I'm doing my best just give me a chance, it is the xmas hols and hardly anyone is working on the estate.

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If the local bat group have no concerns over the way it has been blocked then there is nothing to get concerned over. If they do have concerns, then the proper course I imagine is for them to discuss the matter with Natural England. That's how those I know in the bat world would probably go about things.

As I said in previous post I am trying hard to get this sorted but communication is not fluid due to the hols.

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