Sealed - Church Mine North· Page 2

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Morlock
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#21

"Peter Burgess" wrote:

"Morlock" wrote:

"Peter Burgess" wrote:
I am grateful that at least on my patch we talk to each other and respect each other's priorities, and don't call each other "nutters".

If you think you can discuss anything with certain EU people, (the main cause of current problems) you are sadly mistaken. This applies to ALL areas they choose to operate in. >:(
Nonsense. Utter nonsense. Surrey Bat Group, WCMS, and mine owners in Surrey muck along pretty well together. I don't recall ever meeting anyone from an EU body when discussing or visiting a relevant site.

You're right, I meant to write UE as in Urban Explorers. 😉

Glad to discover the EU are not involved. 🙂

Edit: It appears they are, (at the highest level).

http://www.wildlifematters.com/files/bats08.pdf

remoteneeded
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#22

"Hal_Chase" wrote:
It was sealed because people couldn't keep their mouths shut and wanted all the 'glory' from photographs online.....

Yep, that's pretty much it. The amount of traffic has been pretty large over the last few years. A great shame though.

It's easy to blame the internet but you could equally say that Eric Tonks series of books led people to these mines. It was certainly the case with me. Freedom of information comes at a price.

One of the other mines in this area has a geocache inside so the amount of traffic has increased as a result. I did point out to the cache owner that it was on private land but they didn't listen. Actually, didn't Church have a cache in? EDIT: Just checked and the caches have gone in the mines in this area.

rustydog
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#23

Church had a cache in it and on last visit was still there but I couldn't find it online, so it must have been taken off. I will make some enquiries and see if I can find the real reason for the blocking up. At least we'll know then rather than all the speculation.

http://www.altitudesafety.co.uk/contacts/
Give them a ring. They are very competitve and friendly.

Moorebooks
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#24

A lot of people on here shy away from oprganisations and access agreements but doesn't this demonstate that a organisation could have controlled acess witha decent gate and keys with an access arrangement with the landowners. You generaly find they will work with you on things like this.

As for the Bats

The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (WCA) (as amended), the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000(CRoW), and The Conservation of Habitats and Species Regulations 2010 make it illegal to do close off the access - unless there is an open shaft?

It is a criminal offence and carries a prison sentance it needs reporting and pushing the police to take action mind

Mike

stuey
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#25

When I typed in the name, all I got, apart from the aditnow references was a 28DL report. I gather that their policy is not to put access points up. The report was pretty well written IMO.

I wouldn't class it as "all over the internet".

If bats/men on ropes can get down the air shaft, perhaps it is in the best interests of the place, given there were hobnail boot prints, etc.

Reluctantly, any non grated access on private land should be kept out of the public domain IMO.

rustydog
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#26

Hindsight is brilliant isn't it?. I would think part of the problem is if you approach the land owner and they categorically deny access then you have been told 'NO'. Whereas if you sneak in, you may know it's wrong but you haven't actually been told not to.

http://www.altitudesafety.co.uk/contacts/
Give them a ring. They are very competitve and friendly.

Morlock
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#27

"rustydog" wrote:
Hindsight is brilliant isn't it?.

The current situation was feared at least 18 months ago but by then the cat was well and truly out of the bag.

Moorebooks
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#28

"rustydog" wrote:
Hindsight is brilliant isn't it?. I would think part of the problem is if you approach the land owner and they categorically deny access then you have been told 'NO'. Whereas if you sneak in, you may know it's wrong but you haven't actually been told not to.

Thats not the experience we have had in Shropshire, a lot will depend on ownership a prime example is Cwmorthin although Cwmystwyth also proves you right. I work on the principle if you ask and they say no well then plan to sneak in because you have nothing to lose.

I understand the air was not so good in the deeper reaches with only an air shaft (if it is open still?) that could also worsen and would that affect the Bats?

Mike

ttxela
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#29

A great shame, I had hoped to visit at some point but have not got round to it yet, mind you I was only aware of it through reading about it on here ::)

It would be great if everything could just be left open for those interested to explore at will, however it seems there is a lot to be said for access agreements and gates etc.

rustydog
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#30

I would ask that nobody gets excited and reports anything to authorities yet. Let us see what we can do. If the landowner gets officials knocking on his door regarding bats etc. then he certainly won't be open to suggestions from us regarding getting it re-opened. Maybe as suggested earlier locked gates might be considered, but only if he feels he is under no outside pressure. It must be worth a try.

http://www.altitudesafety.co.uk/contacts/
Give them a ring. They are very competitve and friendly.

stuey
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#31

"rustydog" wrote:
Hindsight is brilliant isn't it?. I would think part of the problem is if you approach the land owner and they categorically deny access then you have been told 'NO'. Whereas if you sneak in, you may know it's wrong but you haven't actually been told not to.

The other approach is that you go along and say:-

"By the way, about your hole, have you seen the pictures on the internet? You should do, they are awful and dangerous reckless chumps will cause you to get sued. Mineral collectors are also thieves and are making a fortune out of your shiny things"

"Our club will come along and put a big gate on it with a massive lock and anyone who wants to have a poke around will have to come and negotiate with us"

I am a distinct poker-arounder and I resent having to ask anyone. However, I appreciate that it is a necessary evil in certain cases.

(I do also belong to a club and have BCA insurance before you think I'm running around with an angle grinder)

royfellows
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#32

Sorry, talk and no action.

Here is the link

http://www.bats.org.uk/pages/reporting_bat_crimes.html

OK, someone local to the place going to do it or do I have to do it?

My avatar is a poor likeness.

Hal_Chase
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie Topic Starter

13 years ago

#33

"rustydog" wrote:
I will make some enquiries and see if I can find the real reason for the blocking up. At least we'll know then rather than all the speculation.

This is not speculation, information came from a Drayton Estate employee, they were going to seal it due to internet exposure, just didn't expect it to happen this fast.

I believe it was sealed between 20th/23rd December.

All I want for Christmas is an Eimco...

ttxela
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#34

Sounds like Rustydog is going to have a go at talking to the landowner, I'd hold off for a short while Roy :flowers:

Morlock
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#35

"ttxela" wrote:
Sounds like Rustydog is going to have a go at talking to the landowner, I'd hold off for a short while Roy :flowers:

Sound advice, we don't want to end up with a lot of concrete and a railway line or RSJ grill.

rustydog
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#36

Please give me time. I have started the negotiation trail and will report as I find out more.

http://www.altitudesafety.co.uk/contacts/
Give them a ring. They are very competitve and friendly.

royfellows
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#37

I'll leave it for a day or two then.

The thing is that the bat people would obviously talk to the landowner first, not just lauch a prosecution, however they would carry more authority.

It still appears to me that the landowners have acted like cowboys with no regard to anything.
Also, I happen to like bats. I was talking to some bat people in Hendre a few weeks ago and they were telling me about the different varieties and their habits. Quite interesting.

My avatar is a poor likeness.

royfellows
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#38

Me again.
Something has just occured and its an interesting twist to it all.

An offence under the Wildlife and Countryside Act is a criminal offence and nothing at all to do with civil law.

If the landowner is a limited company then the company as well as all the individuals involved could be jointly charged.
This is the way the law operates, the company, the director involved, right down to the bloke who drove the digger.

In any event, several individuals could all be charged with the same offence.
Acting 'on instruction' from either another individual, an employer, a company or Uncle Tom Cobbly would be no defence to a criminal charge.

Ouch

My avatar is a poor likeness.

Dr J
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#39

Has anyone checked the status of the neighbouring mines? Think I'm right in thinking that the estate owns the land for all of them? So if Church is sealed, then the others must be at risk-esp as being the more 'popular' traffic sites. If they seal the oldest in particular that would be an awful blow, so much to see there...and *lots* of bats 😞

Some internet sites have a *lot* to answer for, mentioning no names...another site lost as a result of the willy waving 😠

J

Over-ground, underground, wombling free...

Peter Burgess
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

13 years ago

#40

"Morlock" wrote:

"Peter Burgess" wrote:

"Morlock" wrote:

"Peter Burgess" wrote:
I am grateful that at least on my patch we talk to each other and respect each other's priorities, and don't call each other "nutters".

If you think you can discuss anything with certain EU people, (the main cause of current problems) you are sadly mistaken. This applies to ALL areas they choose to operate in. >:(
Nonsense. Utter nonsense. Surrey Bat Group, WCMS, and mine owners in Surrey muck along pretty well together. I don't recall ever meeting anyone from an EU body when discussing or visiting a relevant site.

You're right, I meant to write UE as in Urban Explorers. 😉

Glad to discover the EU are not involved. 🙂

Edit: It appears they are, (at the highest level).

http://www.wildlifematters.com/files/bats08.pdf

That's so funny! I am greatly relieved by the clarification. Too many keyboard warriors blame the EU for everything from the weather to the hangover they had after a bad night down the boozer.