Nice photographs just uploaded but this mine is duplicated under "Ringing Rake and Masson Sough".
I suggest merging the 2 including the mine description.

What thinks admins?

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thought the top of youds was called old jant mine? or was it gentlewomens pipe?

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thought the top of youds was called old jant mine? or was it gentlewomens pipe?

Yes you’re right. Obviously a sough complex will in all likelihood cut several veins and mines. I made the original entry under Ringing Rake and Masson Sough because that was the title of the excellent PDMHS bulletin.

But we do need to avoid duplication of mines of under different names as it will confuse. Either that or X reference.

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I agree, I always thought it was Masson Sough...

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A small historical note that may be of interest and available to possibly sort out any confusion that could arise in the future - cavers of the 1940/50's era knew Gentlewoman's Pipe under a completely different name altogether, we knew it as Queen's mine. (See my earlier note under the Midlands Forum Topic "MASSON CAVERN RECALLED - HAPPY DAYS" 16/10/08 on how we obtained access to Queen Mine through Masson Cavern).

At the time of our exploration of the Masson complex Derbyshire Stone Limited were working Masson Opencast for fluorspar, and the Pearson miners (father and son) were working Black Ox underground, also for fluorspar, so it was quite dicey exploring, one never knew what would disappear before the next caving trip! Youds Level had not then been discovered so the only access to Queen mine/Gentlewoman's Pipe was through Masson via Crichman's mine.

Edit - The Masson mines complex and access was completely altered, after Laport received planning consent to carry out open casting extraction for fluorspar extraction on a much larger scale in the disused Derbyshire Stone quarry on Masson Hill in late autumn/early winter of 1978. I am not aware if cavers could still access Queen mine/Gentlewoman's Pipe until then, or if by that time the boulder under which we crawled had collapsed and blocked our route in. It would be interesting to know.

p.s. Thanks for the lovely photographs, greatly appreciated, brought back memories of tight sough crawls!

It was a good trip in there on Sunday, if anyone wants to move the photos I've added please feel free - however I just added them to the existing Youds level page, honest.

Many Thanks to Richard for showing us the way. We turned back when the crawls got a bit daunting for young Summer.

Wasn't Youds the name of the chap who re-discovered it whilst digging his garden or something? So a relatively modern name for it.

Looks like Brakeman's trip back in March was a bit wetter than ours. The deep shaft looks alot nicer full of water at the bottom. It's more or less dry now and you can see all the junk in the bottom.

I thought it was because they broke thru into it digging an inspection pit in the garage floor of the Youd's Hotel...

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Looking at Jim Rieuwert's "History & Gazetteer of the Lead Mine Soughs of Derbyshire" published 1987, at Fig. 17 on page 83, the map showing the sough which drains Gentlewoman's Pipe is named as Masson Sough, so obviously this is one of the correct names of the sough. The newer name which cavers now call it was obviously named after the person who owned the property where it was broken into.

Jim's description of the sough from page 87 is as follows:-

"RINGING RAKE SOUGH piped into river at
295.594
MASSON SOUGH, branch level driven to Gentlewoman's Pipe. ('Sough to Torr face at south end of Greenhills Yard' dated 1816) probably refers to Ringing Rake Sough.

Ringing Rake Sough may have been originally driven in the early 18th century, the present level being an enlargement of an earlier 'coffin level'. Excavated along the sole of Ringing Rake for about 500 feet it terminates beneath the Matlock Upper Lava. The sough then turns south west and continues as a 'coffin level' for 1,400 feet before intersecting Gentlewomans Pipe. This portion is almost certainly the Masson Sough, driving between 1742 until 1749 at a cost of over £600. From 1748 until 1749 some £35 of ore was obtained from the sough".

Iclok - hope the above information helps and doesn't confuse! Seems to me like one sough having a branch from it i.e. Masson being a branch of Ringing Rake Sough. A bit like the Oxclose/Snicker's soughs which exit at a common "tail" further north up on the west bank of the the River Derwent, Snickers sough being a branch off the Oxclose sough.

You are right ... I just looked this up too and Ringing Rake it is... so thanks for the pointer... Masson is a branch to this... if all are happy then I will amend 🙂 .

(Sougher I got a new map of local coal stuff on the Notts Derby Border.... Unbelievable)

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The sough was called Youd's level because it was discovered by Mr Youd whilst renovating his house. he found the sough in front of the house right by the pavement when doing drains. At that moment there was only a small hole into the roof and he told nobody so as not to hold up the renovation work.
Subsequently, after the work was finished, he told Lynn Willies and PDMHS was given permission to tunnel into a wall in the back garden of the house. It was not an easy dig. We had to drill and jigger pick through a lot of concrete and stone.
After exploration it became obvious that the sough was part of the Masson system and the 'real' names became known from research. However, the name Youd's Level is still in wide use, certainly in Derbyshire.
The current carpark entrance was put in a few years later when we could scrounge a digger and council permission. By this time the owners of the house were well fed up of cavers appearing in their garden at all hours and were threatening to concrete up the garden route!

Great that! Least thats got the real story of how it was found sorted!!! Must admit I have heard about 5 versions of the story but that sounds right.

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Found a slide of the garden entrance dig. We dug up a lot of the yard expecting to drop in the roof but it eventually transpired that the level was into the wall and well down. Actually it was under the public alleyway steps outside the garden.
A doorway was dug into the wall and down at around 45degrees. Finishing up in the wall, bottom right, behind the digger in orange.
The photographer is looking over the high wall from the public alleyway at the bottom right of the photo.

Thats magic... thanx for posting :thumbup:

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Very nice of the chap to let you dig his yard up like that :thumbup:

Presumably the sough would have run to the river originally. Is there any sign of a tail in the bank? I forgot to look.

Just a pipe last time I looked

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I think if Mr Youd had known how much aggravation he was going to get from cavers appearing in his garden he would never have mentioned the sough in the first place.....

Like many soughs, it had been abbrieviated at the entrance to a cut and cover drain of just crawlable size. However, subsequent expansion of the Artist's Corner car park towards the river had led to an extra bit of glazed clay drain being added to the old outfall to make up the distance.
You can tell if anyone is in the sough by the change in colour of the water. Though there is a delay while the mud makes it through the small flooded stope.

This topic shows just what a valuable website AN has become. From all over the UK the information has come, from a wide spectrum of cavers/mine explorers, starting with the excellent photos put up on the site by by ttxela and Roy's querying as to duplication of Mine entries. A small smattering of knowledge between us has given a brief history of the sough (and the mines drained by it), from when it was driven in the 1740's to the later excavations in Mr. Youd's garden. Something I hope that can be archived for future lead mine historians when some of old'uns have vamushed to that mine in the sky!

Staffordshirechina - one small question please. Can you roughly remember the date the excavation was carried out by Lynn and Company? This then completes the data on the sough. Thanks

Iclok - Have you got a copy of Jim's Sough Book? If not, I'll scan Figure 17 in the book which is a map shewing the location of all the soughs in Matlock Bath and Matlock and email it to you. Please let me know.

p.s. Another useless bit of information. Until 1815 there was no road through Matlock Bath, it was a cul-de-sace or dead end. Then in 1815 Scarthin Nick the limestone outcrop at Cromford was blasted through and a turnpike made, which is now the present A6. The history of the early Turnpikes of this area is very interesting.