Henry de Ferrers - medieval Lead Mines· Page 3

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D.Send
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8 years ago

#41

Hi,
Yes, the subject is indeed intriguing, mainly because of the scarcity of mining archives in the medieval period.
The whole peninsula has been studied in great detail by Exeter University, who located very ancient workings at Bere Ferrers.
As a boy, I looked in awe at flooded shafts at Bere Ferrers, and, as a teenage caver, explored some Bere Ferrers adits.
I did mention the more recent Tamar flooding event, just to show that even today the lodes are of some interest.
If I mentioned Bere Ferrers, it was to show the influence the de Ferrers family had in mining areas.
Thankyou for the posting.
D.Send > Descend > Undergound enthusiast!

D.Send
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8 years ago

#42

Hi again,
Bere Alston may seem more important than Bere ferrers.
However Bere Ferrers Parish has an Archi-Priest, revealing the great importance the parish once had. An Archi-Priest is very close to an Arch-Bishop in the Chuch Hierarchy! It should be remembered that Henry de Ferrers was the third most important landowner in Norman England... with considerable mining experience in Normandy. And the French De Ferrers family remained IronMaster Barons for centuries afterwards.
D.Send.

J25GTi
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8 years ago

#43

Ah yes once you read it aloud it makes sense.... :oops:

I dont doubt there are medievil workings all over the bere peninsula, just the relation to the crown is for the two western most lodes at bere alston not bere ferrers.

I dont doubt that shallow deposits were trialled elsewhere on the peninsula, but I would bet they were not successful or partiularly rich as I see no other lodes present in the area?

I have been in a few medievil workings in the area, one as such I can guaruntee no one else got into, an old stope that broke through to surface, i got access just before it was filled....

Graigfawr
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8 years ago

#44

"D.Send" wrote:
Hi,
After 1066, Henry de Ferrers worked an ironstone in Normandy called 'GRISON', for the first time, building churches with it, as well as possibly using it as ore.
It is possibly a word derived from the old english mining word 'GREISEN', from anglo-saxon Greissen > to split.
Greisen also gives english GRIT, GRIST , (Welsh and Breton grist > christ !)
Could this be a term from the Forest of Dean iron mines?
English monks certainly influenced Norman thought. Anyone have any information on this?
D.Send

Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru (Welsh equivalent of the Oxford English Dictionary) states that Welsh 'Crist' (which mutates to 'Grist' and to 'Christ' in various circumstances) = 'Christ' in English, derives from Latin 'Christus'.

J.Challinor "A Dictionary of Geology", Cardiff: University of Wales Press, 1962, p.96, states: "Greisen. A light-coloured rock composed of quartz and minerals rich in fluorine and lithium (particularly a variety of white mica, topaz, and fluorspar), produced by the pneumatolysis of granite by fluids containing those elements. Hence 'greisening' or 'greisenization'. [German greis, hoary.]"

D.Send
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8 years ago

#45

Hi,
From various on-line dictionairies we also get :
Greis, Griess, griez, greisen, greissen, grysla, grizzly, grès, grist; (from ancient northern european languages) ;
with the senses of split, grit, gravel, sandstone, all turning around the notion of rocks & crushing, indeed grizzlys are to this day ore grading devices...
Grison is a loose or consolidated iron ore, whose etymology has always been a mystery :
(Greisen is grey quartz often with reddish bands, similar in appearance to Norman iron-bearing sandstones).
A possible explanation?

D.Send
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8 years ago

#46

Hi,
The Baskervilles were norman vassals of Henry de Ferrers. Robert Baskerville (born 1090), married Agnes Deheubarth (kingdom of most of Wales), where amongst others, there were gold mines.
Does anyone have any further information concerning the Baskervilles and early mining?
The Baskervilles were famous in literature, but the family seat was in the Wye valley...
Henry de Ferrers had interests in many mining areas it seems!
D.Send.

AR
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8 years ago

#47

Spotted a few De Ferrers mentions in the Hundred Rolls - See p.58/59 in vol 1 (https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Rotuli_Hundredorum_temp_Henr_III_Edw_I.html?id=_BtDAAAAcAAJ&redir_esc=y)

Don't ask me what they mean though, heavily abbreviated Medieval Latin is not something I have much comprehension of!

Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!

D.Send
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8 years ago

#48

Hi AR,

Thanks for the reference.
I have sent the link to a Latin specialist.
Should know what it means soon, but I did notice that the de Ferrers name refers also to Wirksworth... (where there were mines)...

Intriguing.
D.Send.

AR
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8 years ago

#49

Another one for you, while ploughing through vol.4 of Yeatman's "Feudal History of the County of Derby" (general anaesthetic in paper form...:blink:) I came across this: "Wm. Com. de Ferrars granted to Wm de Montjoie, one-third of a lead mine in Winester."
It's hard to establish the exact date from the text as the author was skipping around between a number of sources at this point but it seems to be from a charter dating to some point between Henry 1 and John. I can scan the page and put it on here if you'd like?

I would be interested to see the original latin for this one as this may refer to a smelting bole rather than the actual mine depending on the terminology used. However, if it is indeed a mine then it may be the earliest reference to shareholding in mines in the Peak.

Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!

D.Send
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8 years ago

#50

Hi AR,
Many thanks for the posting.
'Ferrars' would appear to be the 3d or 4th Earl of Derby, but I can find no reference to such a Montjoie living at this time. So a scan of the page would be valuable. Unfortunately, my latinist contact was unable to make head nor tail of your previous latin extract. ( Not standard ecclesiastical latin).
I am in contact with the Derbyshire records office on another quote. Pity I can't make it to Dr. Lynn Willies talk though.
I look forward to hearing of any further developments.
Kind Regards, D.Send.

D.Send
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8 years ago

#51

Hi again,
Could Wm de Montjoie be a descendant of William de Percy, (died 1098 at Montjoie), Domesday Baron of Topcliffe, Yorks, (swaledale Lead mining) and Dukes of Northumberland... ?
D.Send.

AR
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8 years ago

#52

https://www.aditnow.co.uk/documents/Personal-Album-431/yeatman-extract.pdf with the relevant bit highlighted and looking at it again, it is referenced as coming from a Fine Roll from the reign of King John, so it's early 1200s.

No idea about the descent of the Montjoies but there are several volumes that make up Yeatman's history, some of which I believe are online, and there'll certainly be other De Ferrers-related bits in them

Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!

D.Send
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8 years ago

#53

Thanks very much for this important source reference! Here is another intrigueing indication on the net :

_____________________________________

www.mylearning.org/lead-mining-in-the-yorkshire-dales/p-412
Lead Mining in the Yorkshire Dales.... mines were leased to individuals. Lead was used in warfare, water pipes and glazed windows.

Demand for lead increased following the Norman Conquest through to the medieval period. Land was granted to aristocrats who had supported King William together with important mineral rights. Extraction was recorded by monastic estates who shared in the profits. Much of the Yorkshire Dales National Park was under the control of local monasteries

AR
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8 years ago

#54

It seems there's quite a few of the volumes available electronically, Steve Thompson's just sent me several hundred megabytes of pdfs but I've not yet had chance to look at them. As ever, there'll be a lot of gangue to sift through to find the nuggets of ore....

Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!