D.Send
  • D.Send
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie Topic Starter
9 years ago
Hi,
An old Devon Caver, living in Normandy. Henry de Ferrers was a Norman IronMaster who obtained 216 Baronnies in England. The internet reports he obtained leases for lead mines in Derbyshire. Indeed in Devon, the Birland Silver Mines were renamed Bere Ferrers Mines, and it is possible he managed many others.
I am looking for any information on connections between the de Ferrers, Curzon, Levitt or Baskerville families and english mining. There are many hints in the on-line Domesday Book, but I am looking for other sources of information. Thanks in advance...
Tamarmole
9 years ago
Welcome to AN.

The person you need to talk to is Peter Claughton who is contactable via the Mining History List.

I assume you are aware of the book he co authored: "Mining in a medieval landscape"
legendrider
9 years ago
FYI the link is here:

https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=MINING-HISTORY&a=get&f=/index.htm 

I used to subscribe to this list ages ago (pre-Aditnow) but found the tone a little bit condescending if you were an enthusiast/explorer (or even a MINER!!) rather than an academic.

That's just my personal opinion (R knows why.. ;)) nonetheless it is a very worthwhile resource, I'm sure you'll find help over there.

MARK
festina lente[i]
Tamarmole
9 years ago
"legendrider" wrote:

FYI the link is here:

https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=MINING-HISTORY&a=get&f=/index.htm 

I used to subscribe to this list ages ago (pre-Aditnow) but found the tone a little bit condescending if you were an enthusiast/explorer (or even a MINER!!) rather than an academic.

That's just my personal opinion (R knows why.. ;)) nonetheless it is a very worthwhile resource, I'm sure you'll find help over there.

MARK



I wouldn't disagree -the Mining History list is something of an ivory tower.
christwigg
9 years ago
I get very little from the list these days, but there was an amusing bun-fight recently when someone posted about Bernies closing and Peter Claughton not knowing what it was.

But thats completely :offtopic: i'm sure he will be able to help.
davetidza
9 years ago
Depending on what you are trying to do - you could be in danger of wandering off into serious antiquarianism. If you are just wanting to explore secondary sources - fine. However, if you are wanting to carry out primary research there are heaps of 19th and early 20th century sources. These range from books containing family trees of noble families going back as far as it was possible through to Cartularies of monastic establishments compiled from Public and Private records through to Calendars of State papers such as Pipe Rolls, Exchequer Depositions, Star Chamber Papers and many other classes. A lot of these have been scanned by Google and other sources and are available as downloads. However, they are mind-numbingly tedious and to consult the originals you will need to visit the Public Record Office at Kew and to be able to read Anglo-French Latin!!
Tamarmole
9 years ago
"davetidza" wrote:

Depending on what you are trying to do - you could be in danger of wandering off into serious antiquarianism. If you are just wanting to explore secondary sources - fine. However, if you are wanting to carry out primary research there are heaps of 19th and early 20th century sources. These range from books containing family trees of noble families going back as far as it was possible through to Cartularies of monastic establishments compiled from Public and Private records through to Calendars of State papers such as Pipe Rolls, Exchequer Depositions, Star Chamber Papers and many other classes. A lot of these have been scanned by Google and other sources and are available as downloads. However, they are mind-numbingly tedious and to consult the originals you will need to visit the Public Record Office at Kew and to be able to read Anglo-French Latin!!



Much of the early material on the Bere Silver mines was transcribed and translated into modern English by a chap called (I think) Peter Meyer (?). I am fairly sure that copies are held by Calstock Parish Archive:

http://www.calstockhistory.org.uk/ 

Just be aware that Calstock is a strange place where they do things differently 😉
ttxela
  • ttxela
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
9 years ago
"christwigg" wrote:

I get very little from the list these days, but there was an amusing bun-fight recently when someone posted about Bernies closing and Peter Claughton not knowing what it was.

But thats completely :offtopic: i'm sure he will be able to help.



I'd forgotten about the list, there was some interesting discussions but most went over my head.

I must have unsubscribed from it at some point, I haven't seen anything from it for ages.
somersetminer
9 years ago
"legendrider" wrote:



I used to subscribe to this list ages ago (pre-Aditnow) but found the tone a little bit condescending if you were an enthusiast/explorer (or even a MINER!!) rather than an academic.

MARK



naturally! these two guys are mining historians, neither have been employed underground (as far as I'm aware), nor are they engineers in the field...
AR
  • AR
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
9 years ago
As mentioned on UK Caving, some of Ian Blanchard's work may contain pointers to sources of information. The two references I've got to hand are "Derbyshire lead production 1195-1505" in the Derbyshire Archaeological Journal vol.91 (1971) and the chapter he wrote for CBA research report no. 40 "Medieval Industry" (1982), there was also a chapter in "Boles and Smeltmills" which I don't have the exact reference to hand right now, need to dig my copy out!
Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!
D.Send
  • D.Send
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie Topic Starter
9 years ago
Hi,
Thanks for your useful replies. I will look them up.
It would appear that the Levitt family had interests in the Weald iron industry. (Many derelict places there are called 'Levitts'). Can anyone back this up?
The Levitts came with the de Ferrers, and were also from the Pays d'Ouche Iron mining area in Normandy. At the time, the Weald was England's main source of iron ore. No wonder William the Conqueror landed at Hastings...
(Remember 'FER' in latin is iron). In French, 'Henri de Ferrières'
was Henri from the village of Ferrières Saint Hilaire. He was William's 'Prefectus Fabrorum', the chief master of the works for the invasion... and his close descendants became the Ironmaster Barons in Normandy at the same time that the Barmotes and Stannary courts were established...

Graigfawr
9 years ago
H.Cleere & D.Crossley "The iron industry of the Weald", 2nd ed, Cardiff, 1995, covers the industry from prehistoric times; the Levett family seem only to be mentioned from the C16 onward; the term "Levitts" does not appear to be noted. This is based on a check of the index only.

The publication "Boles and smeltmills" mentioned upthread is: L. Willies and D. Cranstone (eds.) "Boles and smeltmills: report of a seminar on the history and archaeology of lead smelting held at Reeth, Yorkshire, 15–17 May 1992" (Historical Metallurgy Society: Special Publications), 1992.
AR
  • AR
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
9 years ago
I'm not a French speaker but I do note the similarity between Pays d'Ouche and the modern English word "ochre" - if the former was an iron-producing district I wonder if the name and the word have a common source?

Also, as far as is known the Barmote court and the core of its laws have pre-Norman origins - its existence and jurisidiction was formalised in 1288 at the Ashbourne inquisition, but as Jim Rieuwerts has often commented, the jury there concluded that it had been the custom in the Peak since time out of mind! There was a paper in an old PDMHS bulletin which I'll pull the link out for later, unless Davetidza beats me to it!
Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!
davetidza
9 years ago
Quote:

There was a paper in an old PDMHS bulletin which I'll pull the link out for later, unless Davetidza beats me to it!



There are a couple of papers by Martin Daniel (who I seem to remember was a relation of John Beck's) in Vol. 8 No. 3

http://www.pdmhs.com/publications/index---mining-history-volume-8 

davetidza
9 years ago
Details of Ian Blanchard's Work (and an appreciation!) may be found at

http://www.steiner-verlag.de/uploads/tx_crondavtitel/datei-datei/9783515101301_p.pdf 
D.Send
  • D.Send
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie Topic Starter
9 years ago
Hi,
Pays d'Ouche comes from latin Pagus Uticensis. Pagus was a roman administrative district. Uticensis is open to interpretation, but it is possibly linked to UTICA, phonecian name of Carthage.
We also ponder on Ashby-de-la Zouche, where there were mines? The first reference to ouche is ecclesiastical latin 'fons
uticensis', meaning the 'ouche spring' of the charenton river.
Ferrières is first cited in the 9th century in archives.
In the Domesday Book, Henry de Ferrers possessed many Derbyshire baronnies... and being a mining expert...
D.Send.
Tamarmole
9 years ago
Peter Claughton's Phd thesis "Silver mining in England and Wales 1066 - 1500" is available as a free download from the British Library's Ethos service:

http://ethos.bl.uk/Home.do 
davetidza
9 years ago
You may (or may not!!) wish to view the six volumes of 'The Feudal History of the County of Derby (Chiefly during the 11th, 12th and 13th Centuries)' by John Pym Yeatman, Sir. Geo. Reresby Sitwell and Cecil J.S. Foljambe published late in the 19th century.

Parts of it (at least) are available as downloads in various places.
D.Send
  • D.Send
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie Topic Starter
9 years ago
Hi,
Thankyou for all your references. Here is one I have received :

The Dictionary of National Biography, Volumes 1-20,22 record for Robert de Ferrers shows that in 1130 Robert de Ferrers was found as leasing the lead mines in Wirksworth. He was one of the witnesses to Stephen's charter in 1136.

This is just the sort of information I have been looking for. If anyone has other sources for other mining regions, I would be most grateful to hear from you.
Regards,
D.Send.
D.Send
  • D.Send
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie Topic Starter
9 years ago
Hi,
The Baskerville family also came with Henry de Ferrers. Originally called de Bascheville, the family received lands in Herefordshire, (Brobury mentioned in the Domesady Book). They also took part in the conquest of parts of Wales...(Brycheiniog copper).
Are there any known links between Herefordshire or Welsh mines and the Baskervilles?
Is there any real link between the Baskerville family and mines on Dartmoor, (Sir Arthur Conan Doyle etc). ?
D.Send
Similar Topics
Users browsing this topic

Disclaimer: Mine exploring can be quite dangerous, but then again it can be alright, it all depends on the weather. Please read the proper disclaimer.
© 2005 to 2023 AditNow.co.uk

Dedicated to the memory of Freda Lowe, who believed this was worth saving...