How exactly do we know what the new generation of Cornish folk want? I for one am not too sure.

I'm not sure they are that bothered or aware.

We bang on about UK history, WWII, the slave trade, diversity, etc, etc. Bottom line that none of the stuff in schools (I am a teacher) is relevant to the local kids. There is a drive to European wishywashyness. The kids don't buy into it for a moment.

The reason is that it's out of touch. Exactly the same as a fair few councillors. The people in charge are not meeting the needs of the "customer". They are too insulated, blinkered and arrogant to actually see beyond their own agenda and that of their chiefs.

This is apparent in everyone you speak to in Cornwall (and we are not idiots) and the bottom line is they are not acting in our interests. You see the latest development project or "community" so an so, no-one consulted the locals or asked anything. They just went along with their own insulative agenda.

You can bang on all you like about how great these people are, quote their buzzwords and "celebrate" their achievements. As a Cornishman, I think they are well wide of the mark, are often wasting a lot of money which is desparately needed elsewhere. You don't need a microscope to see it.

Sadly, this is a part of the culture of the UK. We elect them to make our decisions for us. They try and force their corrupt, self serving, eutopian crap down our throats and we are meant to shut up and buy it.

In answer to your question, I think that the new generation have very little idea about where they fit into the scheme of things, where they are coming from or where they are going. I see this firsthand in the schools I visit and talking to the children of my friends. Some pull themselves out of the pit, but a fair few "just wanna get fokked innit". Cornwall is in a fair degree of mess and there are lots of experts, money and infrastructure to sort it out. Sadly, the muppets in charge are totally ineffective.

The thing is that growing older is a good teacher and all these gaps are filled. I meet proud Cornish folk and other people who live here who grow to understand the significance of our unique history and the features of such an amazing place and truly belong here.

Belonging is a wonderful thing, it makes you proud. It makes you want to do well. In my opinion, the council are no better in terms of achievement and performance indicators than the lost kids you see getting pissed in the park on Saturdays.

The difference being, those kids might get it together, the council never will.

Rant/Jaded Spiel over!

London has a long industrial and manufacturing tradition, much of which has evaporated, and in this respect is little different from other parts of the UK. Some parts of London also have a fierce traditional pride in their industrial history - consider the now long lost docklands, for example. Before knocking 'London' try to do a bit of research so at least you know what you are talking about. If you wish to refer to "The City" (financial centre) or "Westminster" (political centre), then, fine. At least you might be a bit closer to the mark with your jibes.

The primary difference is way back in the 1980's when that idiot Scargill thought he had the power to tackle Thatcher the result was that whole towns (and in the odd case city) had there insustrial base ripped out.
This didn't happen in London that has/had litteraly scores of different industries.
In bigger places like London the process was much more gentle.
In a town built around coal mining or shipbuilding (or whatever industry Thatcher decided to break) the entire workforce of that town was on the dole in a matter of weeks.
Nothing replaced these shut down industries, in many cases there was no other employment. Not only were men put on the dole but their kids had no prospect of getting a job either.

I think cultural identity is lying dormant in many of the the kids in Cornwall. They learn about mining and fishing in year 6 and listen to their grand parents who are old enough to remember when at least four or five mines were in operation. These are the cultural seeds and given the right conditions will blossom in later years. The danger here is that when these kids 'cultural pride' finaly switches on, there wil be very little left to identify with, other than 'manufactured' replica mining sites with fudge and tea-towels, from the midlands and China respectively.
I would love to give everyone in Cornwall the opportunity to see some of their heritage by taking them underground, or walking them out into an overgrown valley where the last remnants of long lost industry can be seen, and showing them what it should look like and not what is presented as 'heritage' after it has been tarted up and 'access for all' footpaths carved out everywhere, for Chavs to fill with beer cans and their dogs to crap on. :curse: :guns:
oops...! I'm off again!
Now..........Vallium or Scotch?.....Both!............Bliss!

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Blimey…its all doom and gloom isn’t it! Or rather, it isn’t I live in North Nottinghamshire – a traditional coal mining area, that now has no mining industry to speak of and went through a huge programme of pit closures and redundancies…
So far that fits the picture that you guys are painting!
However that’s were I differ, is the area poor? Deprived? Do we have high un-employment? Not at all, Nottinghamshire is more prosperous now than its ever been…
I look at some of the huge industrial parks that have sprung up on old mine sites and see the companies that have set up there…companies in High Tech manufacture, Aerospace, Power, IT, Pharmaceuticals etc etc…as far from the clichéd “McJobs” as you can get…Big employers…International Companies that have created high skill, well paid jobs…Nottinghamshire is doing better than it ever has
I work in Yorkshire and the same could be said about the region here…
I don’t think anyone could look at these areas and not see straight away that the regions, and the people are far better off than they were 20 years ago!

I know most of this thread has gone down the line of Cornwall but think how me who lives in lowly Wigan feels. Although I'm not originally from this was I'm from other areas (nottinghamshire) where coal mining was king. Wigan was once king of coal but now very little remains unless you really know where to look infact very little industry remains full stop. The problem we have is a council that denies that Wigan has an industrial heritage but it has a dirty sordid past of pollution and coal. Whats that all about. There is now only one big coal ruck left in the area (Bickershaw), one headgear (Astley Green) and a small selection of buildings which are only there as people have forgotten about them. We should celebrate the fact that Wigan helped drive the industrial revolution and have some pride not denial.

Just out of interest with regards to reoppening coalfields I am aware that at Parkside Colliery there was a conservative estimate at 500million pounds worth of coal under ground that wouldn't be good for the economy would it.

We currently import most of our coal from Columbia when we are sat on many many millions if not Billions of pounds of coal. but hang on coals dirty. 😉

In answer to Pete Burgess you knew what I meant in the context of what we were discussing re investment etc.... so no need for the patronising 'do your research bit' .... I have done it for years thank you without any prompting and fully understand the UK's socio economic problems very well having worked in most the heavy and light industries across the UK, inc London's and watched it get reamed into the floor!.

And Carn if you do believe the governments not responsible for the current crisis or the abject mis management of the banking industry I guess Santa will be visiting you.

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If I am to be accused of being patronising, then consider why I felt the need to write that way. I get fed up with comments, unintentional maybe, that seek to generalise and demonise anything associated with London and the South East. We are all very similar in our concerns, pride, history and so on, and do not need to be stereotyped. That may not be people's direct intention, but it does come over like that. Its the same stupid attitude that says all East Anglians are inbred, all northerners drink p155 beer and wear flat caps, and all Somerset people go round sucking straws. So let's just try to be a bit more intelligent, and realise that the UK as a whole has problems, and no one geographical area is to blame for it. Rant over.

Just to be clear about this my original post re. the Thames Gateway regeneration project wasn't intended to be anti London or the south east in case in read that way. I was really just wondering how it would be perceived elsewhere.

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Blimey

Be more intelligent?? who are you talking to??>:( If you've got a chip on your shoulder about the SE and London that's your problem.
Most people (inc those i know and work with in the SE) just don't give a toss on the regional banter thing and understand it's 99.9% just for fun & really are not gonna lose sleep if someone says their beers flat or that I s**g sheep or suck a fr**kin straw cos I'm from Somerset.
There's a huge difference between banter and socio political issues and the vast majority of folk on here can make that distinction without prompting to see the bigger picture "that the UK as a whole has problems" 😠

And one geographical area is to blame...... London.... oops I mean the City of Westminster & Parliament and the bunch of political cowboys, and financial gangsters residing there at the moment in "Not my Fault Fantasy Land".

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And one geographical area is to blame...... London.... oops I mean the City of Westminster & Parliament and the bunch of political cowboys, and financial gangsters residing there at the moment in "Not my Fault Fantasy Land"

I'm as far from the South East as you can get...but even I realise we weren't pointing the finger quite so much when they were keeping us all afloat with their foreign investment and tax income!
We'd be in a damn sight worse state without them!

Be more intelligent?? who are you talking to??>:( If you've got a chip on your shoulder about the SE and London that's your problem.
Most people (inc those i know and work with in the SE) just don't give a toss on the regional banter thing and understand it's 99.9% just for fun & really are not gonna lose sleep if someone says their beers flat or that I s**g sheep or suck a fr**kin straw cos I'm from Somerset.
There's a huge difference between banter and socio political issues and the vast majority of folk on here can make that distinction without prompting to see the bigger picture "that the UK as a whole has problems" 😠

And one geographical area is to blame...... London.... oops I mean the City of Westminster & Parliament and the bunch of political cowboys, and financial gangsters residing there at the moment in "Not my Fault Fantasy Land".

"Excuse me madam. You've left one of your child's toys on the pavement."

Note to self...

Don't start threads that might get political :lol:

:flowers:

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Note to self:-
Got the Climate Change, Energy and Planning Acts through without too much comment. Now enacted. Audit Commission has its uses. :blink:

Gents... invective is fine, as long as it's not aimed at other posters! :flowers:

(In response to Jagman, somewhat up there, I've always wondered why Scargill started the miner's strike in March, when the winter was over and we didn't need coal for at least 6 months...)

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Blimey…its all doom and gloom isn’t it! Or rather, it isn’t I live in North Nottinghamshire – a traditional coal mining area,
So far that fits the picture that you guys are painting!
However that’s were I differ, is the area poor? Deprived? Do we have high un-employment? Not at all, Nottinghamshire is more prosperous now than its ever been…

Suppose they had to have some payback for being a bunch of scabs.

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Suppose they had to have some payback for being a bunch of scabs.

Mind you, Nottinghamshire certainly wasn't exempt from the heavy cuts of the decade that followed...

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Gents... invective is fine, as long as it's not aimed at other posters! :flowers:

(In response to Jagman, somewhat up there, I've always wondered why Scargill started the miner's strike in March, when the winter was over and we didn't need coal for at least 6 months...)

Thats a complex question.
Partly from ignorance, he didn't realise who much coal was stockpiled at powerstations to ride out a strike (unforgivable lack of preparation on his part really)
The unions in general had got used to exerting massive block voting power over the Labour Party in power 5 years before and failed to recognise he still didn't have that influence when Labour was not in power.
Traditionally the miners held massive power over the country, the vaguest hint of a strike was enough to threaten closing down the entire country and had been for nigh on a century.
In short, Scargill overestimated the ability of the miners and the NUM to bring the country to a halt in a matter of weeks as the mining unions had long had the power to do.
He thought calling out the miners would put us all in the dark within weeks, regardless of the time of year. It wasn't domestic supplies that were of interest to him but the big power generators.
As much as I agree that Thatcher had no option but break the Unions stanglehold on the country I don't think it was necssary to gut British industry to do so. Scargill is in my humble opinion fully responsible for the demise of coal (and indirectly ship building and steel production) by believeing in his own supremacy and his ability to dictate terms to the government of the day, he failed to realise times had changed and he killed off the coal industry in his power play

Partly from ignorance, he didn't realise who much coal was stockpiled at powerstations to ride out a strike (unforgivable lack of preparation on his part really)

Why didn't his friends in the power supply unions tell him?

Thats a complex question.
Partly from ignorance, he didn't realise who much coal was stockpiled at powerstations to ride out a strike (unforgivable lack of preparation on his part really)
The unions in general had got used to exerting massive block voting power over the Labour Party in power 5 years before and failed to recognise he still didn't have that influence when Labour was not in power.
Traditionally the miners held massive power over the country, the vaguest hint of a strike was enough to threaten closing down the entire country and had been for nigh on a century.
In short, Scargill overestimated the ability of the miners and the NUM to bring the country to a halt in a matter of weeks as the mining unions had long had the power to do.
He thought calling out the miners would put us all in the dark within weeks, regardless of the time of year. It wasn't domestic supplies that were of interest to him but the big power generators.
As much as I agree that Thatcher had no option but break the Unions stanglehold on the country I don't think it was necssary to gut British industry to do so. Scargill is in my humble opinion fully responsible for the demise of coal (and indirectly ship building and steel production) by believeing in his own supremacy and his ability to dictate terms to the government of the day, he failed to realise times had changed and he killed off the coal industry in his power play

Ta! :)

I read a bit about this recently in Andrew Marr's book on the last 60 years of British history.

Oddly, I've just been talking about this with our workshop manager who'd been a site manager when Drax was being built and he reckoned that the (then) CEGB had spent two years building up enough supplies within the fences of each power station to allow them to operate for 12 months without needing resupply - apparently this even extended to building CO2 plants at nuclear power stations.

Interestingly, Marr's conclusion is that the cuts to the coal industry would have been less savage if the strike hadn't happened and indeed, the first couple of mines to be shut were closed on the grounds that they had geologically deteriorated during the strike - although I doubt that was the only factor...

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