I discovered on doing research into my Grandmother's family that her father William McIlquham and uncle Robert McIlquham were both involved with mining in Cwmystwyth. Robert was also a chandler in Aberystwyth and William his Commercial Traveller.

I wonder if anyone has any knowledge that would be of help in my research. I don't know very much, but I do have a photo of William.

regards
Malcolm

Beware different spelling "McIllquan"
Cwmystwyth 1896 to 1898 in partnership with Bainbridge and Boundy. Agent John Owen

William Boundy, owner north Bryyrafr and Camdwrbach (Mine of the black cave pearls Simon RL)

Same partnership as above: Owners of Castell Mine 1896, agent John Owen again.

James McIlquan and James Rawthorne owners of Dolclettwr 1881 to 1883. J Mac was agent as well

P Barker and James McIlquan owners of Esgairmwyn and Esgirddu 1886 to 1889

I am hitting more and more so what follows is a paste in

Glogfach & Glogfawr,,1893 - 1898,,Agent - Peter Garland,Secretary - James McIlquhan,
J.A. & Thomas Garland & James McIlquhan,,Owner / Operator / Lesee,,Lisburne = Glogfach & Glogfawr,,1899 - 1903,,Not Worked 1902 - 03;,,

John Jones Atwood & Co.,,Owner / Operator / Lesee,,Mountain Lake,,1862,,No Detailed Return,,
James McIlquhan & James Rawsthorne,,Owner / Operator / Lesee,,Llainhir,,1881,,Manager - Evan Daniel,,

Rhoswydol Mining Co. Ltd.,,Owner / Operator / Lesee,,Rhoswydol including Bacheiddon 73+74;,,1873 - 1877 stopped 18 August 1877,,Manager: George Green 73-74;,Agent;J.H. Roberts 74;+Seth Dunn 75; S Dunn 76-77,Secretary: George Green 77;
Thomas W. Ward,,Scrapper ?,,Rhoswydol,,1890,,Agent; James McIlquhan,,

James McIlquhan & Co.,,Owners,,"Bwlch , Pencraigddu & Ceunant",,1885 - 1890,,Agent - William Northey 1881 - 1890.,,

Continuing database searches.

EDIT
Above is courtesy of Simon JS Hughes "captains" database, kindly provided for my use. Credit where its due.

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W.J.Lewis 'Born on a Perilous Rock: Aberystwyth Past and Present', Aberystwyth, 1980, on p.257 is an 1886 photo of the warehouse on the north-west side of Trefechan Bridge (now a wine bar) painted 'Marine Stores / China & Earthenware' and 'Mc.Il---- / Rac----- / Sack----' (one side of the building is partly obscured).

In the mid C19 the term 'marine stores dealer' indicated a scrap merchant rather than a ships chandler. An 1848 encyclopaedia states "worn-out and broken articles of iron, termed old iron, are collected throughout the country and purchased by a class of tradesmen called dealers in marine stores, who sort them into three kinds for sale" but by the end of C19 the designation 'marine stores dealer' was also coming to be applied to retailers of ship stores and in subsequent decades the term cesaed to pertain to minor dealers in scrap iron and to pertain solely to retailers of ship stores. Ships stores retailers sold foodstuffs and clothing and generally operated on a smaller scale than did ships chandlers; many were general grocers as well as suppliers to shipping.

Well, when you came to aditnow you sure got the right shop!

I have looked as hard as I can tonight and all I turn up is James.
I believe the family came from up north, I have run it through my Cumbrian Miners Database and got no hits.
The name was prominent in my mind and then the penny dropped so to speak. James testified to the 1891 Royalties Commission, I have uploaded a pdf of the document, again courtesy of Simon Hughes.

http://www.ancestry.co.uk 

The cost is very reasonable and its nice to use. Its the one I used to research the characters in my forthcoming book.

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I presume your grandmothers father was William Edward McIlquham born 10/12/1853. He and his wife died in Bristol leaving a young family. It was his brother James Alexander McIlquham,born 1/9/1841, my great grandfather, who had the warehouse in Aberystwyth. The family came from Clitheroe. Robert born 16/5/1815 was the half brother of James Alexander and William Edward and he stayed in Clitheroe. They worked in the Primrose calico mill there until it closed and then they became shopkeepers. There is a bit of the family on Ancestry but it is not all correct. You will find my corrections on some parts. I know there were shares in mines but I have no idea what happened to them.

Many thanks for this input sucram.
You have kindly filled in a gap in my knowledge base.

You will know this, but for the benefit of others, it was quite common for an individual, or a partnership of 2 or 3 individuals to take on a mine, work it for a while putting it into 'good order' and then floating a company to attract investment capital. Often members of the parnership would be major shareholders in the new company, sometimes one would work for the new company as a 'captain'.

Mmm
To go on a bit more.
A captain in Wales was different to Cornwall in the 19th Century. In Wales if employed by a Joint Stock Company, or after 1856 by a 'Ltd', he would be middle management answerable to the directors.
In Cornwall, if employed by one of the old cost book companies he would be senior management answerable only to the shareholders.
This must have been something of a culture shock to cornishmen travelling to Wales to take up positions of mine captains.

Sorry to digress, but I think an interesting general point.

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My Great Grandfather was indeed William Edward McIlquham. I have traced the family back to Horton in Gisburn where Robbart McIlquham was married if my memory serves in 1795. What on earth a Scotsman was doing about as far away from the coast as possible in 1795 I don't know. I knew that Robert father of William and James was a calico printer but did not know that it was at the Primrose Calico Mill.
I went to the wine bar that is now where the warehouse was in Aberystwyth.

I will get my files on the family out in the next couple of weeks as I have rather a lot going on this week. I am sure there was a connection with Neath mining as well.

Cost book companies continued to function in mid Wales after the introduction of limited liability. Limited liability was only adopted by some mid Wales non-ferrous metal mining concerns, possiobly due to the costs of registration. Costbook company structures held attractions too for fraudulent concerns, for there were merely conventions on disclosure of company information, rather than rules (albeit that the financial disclosure rules set by companies registration legislation in C19 were pretty modest).

The pattern of mine ownership shown by the McIlquham family has something of a pattern of buying up reasonably large mines after the cessation of working by large companies. This suggests either misplaced optomism, or - (given that the family did not apparently experience financial embarassment and was able to buy a succession of mines - a carefully thought-out strategy of working out the last easily accessible portions of the lodes, the possible reprocessing of selected areas of tips, and the realisation of scrap and the sale of second-hand materials to other working mines. These last activities (scrapping and sale of materials) would fit well with their description as 'marine stores dealers' - i.e. scrap merchants.

The recorded names of the partenerships they operated under suggest formal partnerships but without limited liability, and certainly do not suggest cost book structures. If you search the London Gazette online archives (free!) you may find notices of dissolution / alteration of partnerships which would clarify the composition of the partnerships and their termination dates. Do let aditnow members know what you find!

Many companies were run on the cost book principle long after Limited Liability was introduced. Notice I say "the cost book principle".
The cost book principle does not make a cost book company.
A company is either A Cost Book Company, or a Joint Stock or Limited Liability it cannot be more than one as a legal entity. The cost book principle is a system of internal management and accounting, a cost book company as a legal entity in that sense was a company formed under Stannary Law under the jurisdiction of one of the Cornwall or Devon stannaries.

I an aware of the confusion caused by this especially when researchers turn up cost books relative to companies say in Wales formed well after the 1865 Act and even with the word "Limited" in their name. It was common to 'borrow' this system from the cost book companies, but was open to criticism, letter in the Mining Journal etc.

Nowadays of course accounting is done on Historical Cost Convention.

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Good point, Roy - thanks for clarification.

Your very welcome Robert.
If any others want to carry on this discussion (Cost Book Companies etc), please start another thread. (Personal favour to me)
I don’t want to see this thread going too far off (and it would me my fault as well), it’s too important, and I feel we are privileged to have relatives of this family posting.

Please, keep it coming if you have any more to add.

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McIlquaham was advertising a waterwheel for sale near Clitheroe in MJ ca 1876, perhaps at Whittendale Mine. Can check the exact ref. if anyone is interested.

I certainly would be interested. I have had no inkling that my ancestors were involved in mining before they left Clitheroe. I thought that it was all Calico Printing - that may give the vital clue as to why they moved to central Wales.

Thanks

Havn't managed to check the ref yet, but although advertised in the Mining Journal I don't think it specified the wheel was at a mine - would the mill have been water powered?

Malcolm. I have tried to reply to your address ref personal message but it would not go.I don't know another way to get the Mc family info to you.
The warehouse in Aberystwyth had rag sorting on the bottom floor so maybe this was a continuation of the mill work in Clitheroe. I remember it as a china warehouse in the 1940's.
I have a letter from James Alexander of Aber talking about his life in Clitheroe as a boy when his father worked at the mill and no mention of mines. The McIlquhams were among the founders of the Congregational Church in Clitheroe.

The Primroe mill was water powered. It closed in 1854. There is a picture on the internet,no date, of the 'old wheel in ruins'

Rag sorting fits well with their description as marine stores dealers (= scrap merchants). Nowadays it would be described as recycling to benefit the environment!

I looked up the Rawsthorne family ref the partner of James Alexander Mc in his some of his mine enterprises. They were watchmakers in Clitheroe, where the Mc family came from. A clock circa 1850 by James father John Rawsthorne sold at Southerbys last year for £5,000. In 1881 and 1891 James was a watch and clockmaker and Jeweller in Clitheroe
He died in 1898 age 56 in West Derby
His wife was Eleanor Aspinel I think these dates are correct. In 1901 his son, Raynsford, was a traveller in clocks.

Ref Mining Journal 26.2.1876 p. 221
42 ft wheel for sale £120 near Clitheroe.- McIlquaham, broker, Aberystwith.
The size of this wheel suggests it was more likely to be on a mine rather than a mill - in general mill wheels were smaller than this, but not always the case.

Thank you. It is not the water wheel in the internet picture which is half that size.
John Jones Atwood, another person connected with the mines was a prominant solicitor in Aberystwyth. There is more about him on another mine site. Also George Green who had a large foundry in Aber. Pictures in 'Born on a Perilous Rock'
All info from net and Aber books.
I wonder if anyone bought the wheel!