Very sad to see the huge amount of flood damage in Cumbria - I lived in the Lakes and saw the 2009 disaster. I have seen reports of serious problems in Glenridding - does anyone know what has happened up at Greenside mine with its unstable spoil tips? The Glenridding beck looked very choked up in the village.
For anyone caught up in this I am sure everyone on this forum is thinking of you.

I think the problem is more to do with the roads out of the village being blocked in a few places by outwash of scree and other debris from the becks. On the other side of Helvellyn the road on the Cumberland side of Dunmail is 3/4 gone in places, washed into Raise Beck/Birkhouse Gill - so a long detour from Keswick to Grasmere for some time to come.

Just seen lots of photos are on www.facebook.com/ullswatersteamers

Other mine sites that have suffered with rain up there in the last few years are Threlkeld Mine, Tilberthwaite horse level (where the CATMHS dig is) and Coniston Deep Level. I wonder what state they are in now?

It would be irresponsible in the extreme to borrow an excavator and de-water an ochre-filled level right now.

There's enough polluted, brown, churning water in the rivers as it is, we don't need any more, thank you! :angel:

MARK

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We'lll be visiting Tilberthwaite this weekend.

The dig was set back significantly by the previous round of catastrophic floods!, I hope it's not suffered this time.

Chris.

Perhaps I have missed something Legendrider but I don't see where anyone has suggested borrowing a digger for some excavation - have you replied to the wrong post?

Access in South Lakes isn't affected too much - less rain and flooding than north - just likely to be a lot of disruption travelling about the county for some time to come.

Glenridding can now be accessed, just, from Troutbeck (A66) but not from Pooley end or Kirkstone. Apart from the heaps of rock covering the road the surface has erupted in a lot of places and it is likely to be months before it is back to normal.

The A591 is blocked by a number of "landslips" - one of them no doubt containing quite a bit of Helvellyn Mine tips - from the Thirlmere straining well south to Dunmail. Several vehicles, including a Langdale MR Landrover, are stuck between them. Again it's estimated at months before the road reopens.

Strange comment on that link squirrel. One guy says it was deeper at Pooley end than Glenridding - seems like Ullswater's got a tilt on.::)

Someone was up by Red Tarn and posted this on Youtube on Saturday, not too surprising Glenridding had a bad time.

Still - not as bad as when the old Keppel Cove dam failed 90 years ago. That did make a mess with some of the debris reaching Side Farm (on the other side of the valley) and a lot of stock lost - and some lucky escapes for a number of people.

(Funny how last weekend's rainfall (c.10ins over 36 hrs) was "exceptional" and "due to climate change" when there was 3ins+ in one hour and 90mph winds when the dam went.)

Honister saw 341mm in 24 hours; Thirlmere 322mm. Thirlmere also saw 405mm in 38 hrs. All of these are new UK records. I don't know where "ten inches" fits into these figures.

how last weekend's rainfall (c.10ins over 36 hrs) was "exceptional" and "due to climate change" when there was 3ins+ in one hour and 90mph winds when the dam went.)

I wish people wouldn't over-simplify a single exceptional weather event as being due to...

The global warming effect is to increase frequency and intensity rather than any event in particular. So an exceptional rainfall causing flooding is in itself just an unfortunate coincidence of events. If you start getting these events more frequently than usual then there is a likelihood that something has changed. That doesn't mean that it still isn't an unfortunate sequence of events of course, it could still be due to vindictive tropical butterflies, but the more exceptional events that happen in different areas make it more likely that something is afoot.

Bah Humbug and other miserable grumblings...

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Honister saw 341mm in 24 hours; Thirlmere 322mm. Thirlmere also saw 405mm in 38 hrs. All of these are new UK records. I don't know where "ten inches" fits into these figures.

Ten inches is 255mm. :);)

254! :smartass:

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Nitpicker
:lol:

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I suppose it depends where you read the meniscus :confused:

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Honister saw 341mm in 24 hours; Thirlmere 322mm. Thirlmere also saw 405mm in 38 hrs. All of these are new UK records. I don't know where "ten inches" fits into these figures.

Very easy to set a "new record" by measuring at a new site. Honister - 1100ft AOD - (where I worked for many years and experienced first hand the difference in "wetness" between the quarry site and the adjacent valleys) has only had a gauge for 40 years or so, and several of the present gauges are in different, usually higher, places than those from 100 years ago. Rainfall in the lower reaches of the valleys, while still contributing to the flooding, is much lower than the high fell recordings and during the recent wet weekend some places within the catchment had very little rain - so "c. 10ins."

Some years ago the readings for the 1897 floods which hit Keswick and Cockermouth - all from low level stations - were extrapolated to give an estimate of "over 350mm" on the high central fells. Can't be proved of course as no actual recordings were made up there at the time, but selective readings from a couple of high level stations of recent age to claim that the recent rainfall was "exceptional" or "unprecedented" is no more valid.

One issue with "records" is that it tends to focus too much on one component of the problems that some areas have face in recent years, it was very wet and very windy for an extended period of time. Both of the recent Lake District flooding episodes had a link to depression systems running along a strong and stable jet stream. As far as I understand the meteorology of the jet stream isn't clear and is linked to another system at an even higher altitude that has only recently been studied as is even less understood.

On balance I suspect it would help if things weren't built on flood plains, rivers were not excessively canalised, uplands (including The Lakes) were more wooded and moorlands were less drained and more boggy.

My take on it - FWIW -

http://www.skepticalscience.com/december-2015-uk-floods.html 

Some unusual flotsam in Rookhope Burn.....

http://m.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/14127177.Man_and_child_rescued_from_rising_floodwaters/?ref=mr&lp=3 

still there if you're heading from Eastgate up to Grove Rake and are morbidly curious

MARK

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