65ft Wide Sinkhole Opens In St Albans

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risy76115
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie Topic Starter

10 years ago

wonder if it's mine related
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/10/01/sinkhole-length-two-houses-opens-st-albans_n_8225234.html?ncid=webmail1

Rise from the ashes

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rufenig
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

The 6 inch map appears to line up with "Brick fields"
Possible clay extraction?

http://maps.nls.uk/view/102343343

Lister
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

Chalk Mine not too far away?

http://www.aditnow.co.uk/Mines/Roughdown-Common-Chalk-Mine_9680/

'Adventure is just bad planning' Roald Amundsen

Peter Burgess
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

In chalk country, brick fields = chalk mine all too often.

Peter Burgess
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

http://maps.nls.uk/view/104201245

25 inch map. See the brickworks on the other side of the road to the south a bit.

Peter Burgess
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

The overlay shows the affected road built right over one of the old pits.

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=51.7632&lon=-0.3292&layers=171

Peter Burgess
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

It's on the 6 o'clock news in a mo. Let's see if they blame it on natural chalk solution!

Dr J
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

"Peter Burgess" wrote:
In chalk country, brick fields = chalk mine all too often.

Absolutely spot on, historical chalk mine for sure, size of the collapse and coincidence with the extractive land-use say all that needs to be said. Same circumstances as so many of those 'sink holes' we've heard about in the south, southeast of the last few years...

Over-ground, underground, wombling free...

Peter Burgess
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

No mention of chalk mines from the BGS(?) "expert" on BBC news this morning. Only clay extraction on this site, with underlying chalk which dissolves in water (no, it doesn't! - not like that anyway).

To put it on record, yellow stock bricks, common in London and the south east, are made by adding chalk to the clay before firing. Where does the chalk come from? Often from mines directly underneath the brick-clay deposit.

Peter Burgess
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

#10

Two opinions from "experts".

http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-the-st-albans-sinkhole/

Chalk mines are generally OK places regarding stability, but don't take kindly to having residential developments placed above them that disrupt the distribution of groundwater. This happens by the construction of soakaways, and large areas of impermeable tarmac and concrete. It's not as if this hasn't happened before, several times over several decades. :(

Peter Burgess
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

#11

At the risk of being thought to be labouring the point, here is a good paper which covers why chalk mines underlie brickfields, based on a surviving chalk mine in Kent.

www.kentarchaeology.ac/authors/Kidd'sCMDartford.pdf

derrickhand
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

#12

Towards the end of the Coombe Down job (late 09/early 10) there was a job in that area involving backfilling old chalk mine workings in a residential area. Atkins were the consultants, I believe Roger Bullivant got the drilling and grouting but I wouldn't be certain about that.

plus ca change, plus c'est le meme chose

Peter Burgess
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

#13

The Reading job, possibly.

Peter Burgess
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

#14

Yet another geologist trotted out on the BBC London news saying its just due to rainwater dissolving away the chalk. :guns:

Tamarmole
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

#15

"Peter Burgess" wrote:
At the risk of being thought to be labouring the point, here is a good paper which covers why chalk mines underlie brickfields, based on a surviving chalk mine in Kent.

www.kentarchaeology.ac/authors/Kidd'sCMDartford.pdf

Fascinating - thanks for posting.

Peter Burgess
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

#16

Various pages I have found on brickmaking on Bernard Heath mention clay pits and so on. One map shows two limekilns. We could assume that chalk was being worked to feed the kilns, probably in connection with brickmaking. I can find no mention of chalk mines, however.

http://www.hertfordshire-genealogy.co.uk/data/projects/bernardsheath/bh-intro.htm

Dr J
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

#17

Turns out the mines were once alive too, who knew?! :lol:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34428892

Over-ground, underground, wombling free...

Vanoord
54.4% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

#18

BGS are now citing a brickworks...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34421687

Hello BGS people! 😮 :lol:

Hello again darkness, my old friend...

Peter Burgess
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

10 years ago

#19

Has anybody cottoned on to underlying chalk being mined? Spot the two limekilns on the site of the brickworks, and the known connection, well-documented by people who actually know about these things, between chalk and brick-making.
Duh.

Aztelquian
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

9 years ago

#20

Interestingly, chalk sometimes collapses into sinkholes but an entirely different type of mine/ quarry is to blame: In Corfe (Purbeck, Dorset) there are 6-8 small old sinkholes in the lower slopes of the chalk hill but it was actually tunnels in a marl mine that caved in the strata above.