I'm writing a little article about Sir Francis for a local society.
There's an often reproduced image from Hardys 'Hidden Side of Swaledale'



It shows a level going off at the very bottom of the sump, but am I right in thinking that's an error ?

I've read the PDHMS article and Mike Gills book and I think the lowest level worked is the Tiplady Drift mid-way down. The section plan tends to agree.

[photo]117846[/photo]

Does anyone think otherwise before I chop it off my diagram ?

A survey was published in Cave Science some years ago. Can't remember whether it included a shaft section.

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Hi Peter and Chris,
Have looked st the Cave Science article by Peter Crabtree et al and I can state emphatically that there is no section of the sump shown there?
Interestingly he refers to a lower level being worked by the A.D. company for a few months prior to closure.
My guess is that Mr Hardy May have access to the same written information that Peter had hence his inclusion of the lower level. Clearly it was pretty speculative whilst the Tiplady drift was connected via rises to the Sir George Level.

I'm writing a little article about Sir Francis for a local society.
There's an often reproduced image from Hardys 'Hidden Side of Swaledale'



It shows a level going off at the very bottom of the sump, but am I right in thinking that's an error ?

I've read the PDHMS article and Mike Gills book and I think the lowest level worked is the Tiplady Drift mid-way down. The section plan tends to agree.

[photo]117846[/photo]

Does anyone think otherwise before I chop it off my diagram ?

Is the section on graph paper from BGS? It looks like a Dunham drawing.

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Yes, the graph paper section is Dunham from the BGS and doesn't show anything at the bottom of the Engine Sump.

There is reference in Mike Gills book of an attempt to revive the pumping engine and extend the Engine Sump during late 1889-early 1891.

It talks of 6 men being in during in November 1890 to prove the vein, but the pump failing (for good) by January 1891.

Perhaps they did some preparatory work, but I can't imagine they got very far (not to the extent of the Hardy diagram, even if it is only meant to be representation)

in 1985 I dived the shaft to 33 metres without reaching bottom. Sadly the only thing I could see for definite was my depth gauge. Ugh!

MARK

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Amazing, you can't have been far off the bottom if you got to 33m

in 1985 I dived the shaft to 33 metres without reaching bottom. Sadly the only thing I could see for definite was my depth gauge. Ugh!

MARK

Wow.......I've often wondered if anyone had dived that shaft, or would do so in the future, is it documented anywhere ?? I'd love to hear more about it :)

With today's technology, I should be pretty straight forward to put a camera down there ??

It was a scheme we cooked up in York Uni Sub-Aqua Club, following a long weekend wreck-diving off Oban. This was because we'd be a bit more N2-absorption tolerant as the site is deep, cold and at altitude! Oh, and there was a foot of snow on the ground just to make it interesting!

Myself and a guy called Steve Kemp who was from Ipswich I think, kitted up and together went hand-over-hand down the winding rope till we reached 33m at which point we both gave the 'ascend' signal owing to the atrocious viz, stirred up as we made our descent. At that depth it would pretty much have been a bounce-dive anyway to avoid decompression stops. And at altitude we were technically off the tables, so definitely playing with feathers!

I must record my profound thanks to a couple of York Uni guys and gals whose names escape me now, for helping to carry the tanks, weightbelts, BCs and of course, bait!

Funnily enough a few years later I was at the bar in the pub in Gunnerside - it was when Hardy's book was first on sale as they were flogging copies - I ran into a local who also claimed to have dived down, and even penetrated Tiplady Drift. He did not mention a level at the shaft foot as far as I remember, but he may well have made accessing the Drift the sole dive mission.

The daft things we do in our youth!!! :angel:

MARK

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It was a scheme we cooked up in York Uni Sub-Aqua Club, following a long weekend wreck-diving off Oban. This was because we'd be a bit more N2-absorption tolerant as the site is deep, cold and at altitude! Oh, and there was a foot of snow on the ground just to make it interesting!

Myself and a guy called Steve Kemp who was from Ipswich I think, kitted up and together went hand-over-hand down the winding rope till we reached 33m at which point we both gave the 'ascend' signal owing to the atrocious viz, stirred up as we made our descent. At that depth it would pretty much have been a bounce-dive anyway to avoid decompression stops. And at altitude we were technically off the tables, so definitely playing with feathers!

I must record my profound thanks to a couple of York Uni guys and gals whose names escape me now, for helping to carry the tanks, weightbelts, BCs and of course, bait!

Funnily enough a few years later I was at the bar in the pub in Gunnerside - it was when Hardy's book was first on sale as they were flogging copies - I ran into a local who also claimed to have dived down, and even penetrated Tiplady Drift. He did not mention a level at the shaft foot as far as I remember, but he may well have made accessing the Drift the sole dive mission.

The daft things we do in our youth!!! :angel:

MARK

Good effort mate !! 😉

Theres a possibility that our go-to tech guy might be able to borrow a device known to us as the 'Idiot-Cam' which we have used successfully to probe flooded stopes, albeit not to that depth yet but dont see a problem.

I'll keep you posted!

MARK

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Hi Mark, excellent work you did in Sir Francis.
Chris as you state, Mr Hardy’s plan is a little wishful, although all the evidence suggests that the bottom level was at least attempted, but clearly did not get very far.

Hi
Well im that bloke you met in the bar,
Two of us dived the shaft onto tiplady's drift we only did it twice the vis was rubbish and quite a lot of debris in the shaft bottom trevor who was the other diver went into the drift for about 60 feet or so to a forehead he thought it was a forehead as he was navigating by touch.from memory depth is about 90/100 foot.
must have been bloody mad.

moorland.:lol:

Hi
Well im that bloke you met in the bar,

moorland.:lol:

Well we must be members of a VERY small, exclusive club, wonder if Paul Marvin has joined yet??! :thumbsup:

Completely barking mad, of course, although our plan was strictly no-entry into any drifts, considering it an open-water dive with (somewhat) limited access, rather than a cave-dive per se.

Good days... MARK

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