Can anybody help me with a query regarding when cages came into use in mines for use in raising and lowering.
The main area I am interested in is West Yorkshire but I would assume developments occurred round the country at the same time.

Many Thanks

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Alan Hill's coal chronology suggests 1834. He says:

T.Y. Hall moved to the Glebe Pit of Wooodside Colliery near Newcastle-upon-Tyne, where he fitted a rectangular wrought-iron cage with rigid (flat iron) guide bars, three per cage. Square tubs fitted with wheels and holding 6-8 cwt of coal each were drawn up the shaft in teh cages. As a result of using the cage and tubs system, the coal winding capacity of a shaft was doubled. The cage system was soon adopted widely. Up to that time the use of unguided corves had been almost universal. Hall's system spread rapidly and a report of 1849 stated that there were only two collieries in the Great Northern Coalfield not using shaft guide bars. ('The history of winding', Colliery Engineering, 20, February 1943, pp.25-8 and p.236.

However, I also have a note of what appears to be a cage system in use at Poynton Colliery in Cheshire in 1794:

"An engine (Only an eighteen inch cylinder) to wind up coal is erected at Sir George Warren's Colliery in Cheshire. It raises two tubs laden at a draught, which reciprocally pass two empty ones without a possibility of touching each other, and discharge into a moving carriage that conveys the coal into carts. The same quantity is drawn in eight hours as employed four horses". (Derby Mercury 16.2.1794.)

At the same colliery in 1826 an inventory shows that almost every shaft at Poynton was fitted with wrought iron conductors and that tubs were in use underground.

Many thanks 'Tarboat'.

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You need to have a look at the engineering works of John Curr. John Curr was engineer to the Duke of Norfolk at his collieries around Sheffield from about 1776. He invented conductors or guides, or vertical railways in shafts, for which he secured Letters Patent No. 1660, dated 12 August 1788.

He published a book, entitled 'The Coal Viewer and Engine Builder's Practical Companion' in 1797, concerning his introduction of underground tramway systems. His book was reprinted by Frank Cass, with an introduction by Charles Lee, in 1970.

I think you will also find it likely that John Curr of Sheffield (Another in the main forgotten genius of his time) gave us the first properly guided haulage system for shafts in his 1788 patent for "For raising coals out of mines using "conductors" with tiplers at the surface",

Further described as-
"To overcome the damage caused by corves colliding with each other and with the pit shaft, a system of conductors was devised whereby the corves were suspended below a crossbar which ran with the aid of rollers within two pairs of deal rails that formed guide rods. This system not only reduced the risk of collision in the shaft but
allowed the corves to be raised at a much greater speed, with two corves being lifted out of the mine at the rate of 840 feet per minute".

I understand he also derived one of the earliest forms of KEPS, pioneered a machine for the automatic opening of air Doors, the first use cast Iron flanged rails underground circa 1776 and 1788 above ground (although Outram wrongly get credit for this), invented flat hemp ropes for winding (patent 2270 of 1798, and pioneered the use of fixed steam engines for hauling wagons, as well as improving the build quality of Newcomen atmospheric engines used in pumping!. Top guy!

I can heartily recommend hunting down a copy of Currs book, "The Coal Viewer And Engine Builders Practical Companion" :thumbsup:

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You need to have a look at the engineering works of John Curr. John Curr was engineer to the Duke of Norfolk at his collieries around Sheffield from about 1776. He invented conductors or guides, or vertical railways in shafts, for which he secured Letters Patent No. 1660, dated 12 August 1788.

He published a book, entitled 'The Coal Viewer and Engine Builder's Practical Companion' in 1797, concerning his introduction of underground tramway systems. His book was reprinted by Frank Cass, with an introduction by Charles Lee, in 1970.

Great minds Eh!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Certainly sounds a top guy,but how successful was his machine for opening air doors,as young boy`s were employed for this job for near on another 50yrs.

That I do not know but it was probably cheaper just to employ the poor kids as its a fairly complex bit of kit for the time.

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... John Curr of Sheffield ... as well as improving the build quality of Newcomen atmospheric engines used in pumping!

One of the lectures at this year's NAMHO Conference in Bangor in July will be From Calley to Curr: the refinement of the Newcomen Engine between 1712 and 1790 by Steve Grudgings.

Abstract: The publication in 1790 of John Currs’ guide to constructing Newcomen Engines and their houses provides a major milestone in the development of the Engine. From Newcomen and Calley’s initial work around 1710, the materials and methods used for constructing boilers and cylinders underwent considerable change and refinement. Similarly the layout and proportions of the engine, its components and house were subject to considerable variety. This paper examines the issues and objectives underlying these developments and looks also at what can be gleaned of the skills and modus operandi of the engine wrights that built and operated these engines.

Dave

http://www.namho.org/bangor2014 

thanks folk for your information

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If you ask in the library at Caphouse there's much of this material in the 'Eastwood Collection' (the contents of the NCB library formerly at NCB Eastwood Hall HQ), some of which are original editions...

Thanks Darran
I have realised now that Engine Pit at Thurstonland had a Steam Engine in 1843 when the Banskman fell into the fly wheel. From this I assume a cage of types was in use which is earlier than I expected in this area.

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Stream winders pre-date the general adoption of cages. It seems clear that many early steam winders wound corves, kibbles or similar 'bucket-shaped' containers.

e.g. Box Colliery, Llanelli, Carmarthenshire installed its first steam winder in 1807/08 and a second in 1822/23.

These early steam winders would have probably wound similar weights at broadly similar speeds to horse-whims and waterwheel-powered winders which were commonplace in the eighteenth century coal industry (and survived in use well into the nineteenth century). Inevitably, the early steam winders would have wound the same types of containers as were wound by horse whims and waterwheel-powered winders. Cages, broadly speaking, were adopted after steam winding. Dating the details of technological change can be difficult however!

For a detailed account of an early steam winder you could do no better than to read chapter 11 of John Barnatt's account of the archaeology of Ecton Hill (Barnatt, J. 2013 'Delving Ever Deeper: The Ecton Mines through Time' published by the Peak District National Park Authority).

The Deep Ecton winder engine house is almost certainly the oldest extant steam winder house in the world. The engine was commissioned from Boulton and Watt in 1788, and wound from a depth in excess of 800 feet (although it wound to an adit level), and also worked a pump. It was estimated that it could wind 40 tons in an 8 hour shift, against 26 to 30 tons with the existing three-horse-power gin. It used a tapered rope, as a cylindrical rope could not be manufactured with enough strength. The drawings and explanations still exist in the Boulton and Watt Collection.

You need to have a look at the engineering works of John Curr. John Curr was engineer to the Duke of Norfolk at his collieries around Sheffield from about 1776. He invented conductors or guides, or vertical railways in shafts, for which he secured Letters Patent No. 1660, dated 12 August 1788.

He published a book, entitled 'The Coal Viewer and Engine Builder's Practical Companion' in 1797, concerning his introduction of underground tramway systems. His book was reprinted by Frank Cass, with an introduction by Charles Lee, in 1970.

Great minds Eh!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Didn't technical publications have wonderful names in those days?

The Deep Ecton winder engine house is almost certainly the oldest extant steam winder house in the world. The engine was commissioned from Boulton and Watt in 1788

Gwernllwynchwith Pit winding engine house near Swansea was built between 1772 and 1782 and was abandoned by 1786; it housed the earliest known rotary steam engine, predating Watt's 1784 design. This seems to be the currently earliest-known and oldest suriving rotary engine house. The Royal Commission on Ancient & Historic Monuments in Wales has published on it.

Didn't technical publications have wonderful names in those days?

Not half... !! :lol:

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