Le Loup
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11 years ago
I am looking for images of 18th century bars/pigs/ingots of lead, & any videos explaining the workings of an 18th century(or earlier)mine & smelter.
As I understand it so far, the lead was cast into pigs for transportation, & was shipped as ballast to save costs. Then somewhere in the New World, it was recast into lead bars for trading to the colonials & Indians.
If anyone can direct me to any information it would be most appreciated.
Thank you.
Regards, Keith aka Le Loup.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au 
ebgb
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11 years ago
if you google about, there are pictures of Lintzgarth smelt mill in rookhope, with pigs of lead being trundled about and being cast,

might have been on the beamish's site but think there's one or 2 one here as well
4737carlin
11 years ago
The Rookhope Arch is on my list of things to see if i ever make it up that way 🙂
Le Loup
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11 years ago
"4737carlin" wrote:

The Rookhope Arch is on my list of things to see if i ever make it up that way :)



Thank you, appreciated. I will search.
Keith.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au 
AR
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11 years ago
There was an article in PDMHS Bulletin vol 9 no.4 about the investigation of the wreck of the Hollandia, which was an 18th century merchant ship carrying lead pigs amongst other cargo. Unfortunately it's not online but it does contain descriptions and photos of the pigs found.

As for the smelting process, there were two methods used - the ore hearth was the only method used at the beginning of the century but in the latter half the cupola smelter came into use in some areas, Stonedge cupola near Ashover is a good example from the 1770s.
Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!
Le Loup
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11 years ago
"AR" wrote:

There was an article in PDMHS Bulletin vol 9 no.4 about the investigation of the wreck of the Hollandia, which was an 18th century merchant ship carrying lead pigs amongst other cargo. Unfortunately it's not online but it does contain descriptions and photos of the pigs found.

As for the smelting process, there were two methods used - the ore hearth was the only method used at the beginning of the century but in the latter half the cupola smelter came into use in some areas, Stonedge cupola near Ashover is a good example from the 1770s.



Thank you.I have found a lot of info on this, & have many images of lead pigs, but still nothing on the bar lead casting moulds used for the fur trade. Still, very interesting research.
Keith.🅱
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au 
AR
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11 years ago
There is the possibility that the moulds used were just sandboxes with impressions put in, which would mean that they would be highly ephemeral and no-one would have thought it worth the effort of drawing.

Have you tried getting in touch with any historians specialising in the trading companies, there may be stuff lurking in the records of the likes of the Hudson Bay Company that us mining historians wouldn't have come across?
Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!
Graigfawr
11 years ago
In C18 and C19, iron was the only metal to be consistently cast in sand. Copper, lead, tin and zinc were consistently cast into cast iron moulds (originally stone moulds). The primary reason for this practice was not to contaminate the non-ferrous metals with sand. It took a lot of fuel to refine them to the levels of purity demanded by the trades and industries that consumed these metals so there was every incentive not to introduce contaminants when casting them to ingots after the final refning. Indeed, these metals were usually priced in proportion to their purity. Iron in comarison, was of lower value, was produced in much greater volumes, making simple sand casting in open beds convenient, and the metal naturally contained a proportion of silca anyway, making modest additional contaminatio n of little importance. Ultimately, iron too came to be cast into cast iron moulds (although sand pig beds lingered until as late as after WW2 in some works, albeit with a commensurate reduction in prices acheived by the owners).

Each non-ferrous metal had long established sizes and shapes of ingots that saw minimal change until the late C19, with most of these traditional ingots continuing in use well into C20 for more conservative markets. For specialist markets (notably for trade to non-industrialised societies), the various metals were frequently produced in shapes and sizes that very closely met the traditional preferences of those markets. The small ingots demanded by the North American fur trade are a typcial example.

The traditional shape and size for pig lead was around 3ft long by around 4in to 6in wide by around 4in thick. The ends of the pigs could be squareish or half-round. Weights varied from around 2cwt upwards.

I have not encountered references to casting pig lead in any other shapes / dimensions (although I have only consulted a couple of smelters' accounts so my knowledge of this aspect from primary sources is very limited). My belief is that lead was exported in normal size (3ft) pigs. I presume that that larger fur trading companies bought pig lead direct from UK smelters / non-ferrous metal merchants, but that smaller operators may have bought smaller quantities from North American merchants who imported cargoes for general sale and sold-on to manufacturers, plumbers, glaziers, fur traders. etc. 3ft ingots wouold have been inconveniently large and so either the North American merchants or other, lower levels of middle-men, recast the lead to smaller ingots suitable for the fur trade. Does this accord with the information you have so far assembled?

Fur trade company accounts are the most likely place to find written records of the dimensions of these smaller ingots. The big companies were very exact in the specifications they issued, knowing very clearly the preferences of their markets. There has been a lot of published research into the activities of the NW Co, the American Co and the Hudsons Bay Co. Chasing up published references may well lead you written specifications, e.g in orders from trade posts to HQ, or in invitations issued by company HQs for smelters / non-ferrous metal merchaants to tender for the supply of certain tonnages of trade goods in specified sizes and qualities.

I concur with your belief that the recasting to small ingots probably mostly or entirely occurred in North America. However the possibility exists that the recasting (or, rather, the lead may have been directly cast to small trade ingots after its refining) may have occurred in the UK. I raise this possibility because the UK copper smelting industry specialised in casting a number of small and unusual dimensions of ingots and related products for sale to companies trading to non-industrialised societies. However, with lead being so very much easier to recast than copper (which requires a much higher temperature and needs skill and care to achieve the correct 'pitch'), perhaps a comparison between the two metals is irrelevant.

The answer will more likely be found in fur companies' records, I suspect, than in UK smelters' records.

Do post the results of your research!

Stephen Young
11 years ago
Hudson's Bay archives are in Winnipeg, Canada.
exspelio
11 years ago
O.P. is in the Antipodes, maybe East India Company ??.
Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
Graigfawr
11 years ago
I didn't notice the OP's location - sorry.

EI Co archives contain a great deal of detail on copper specifications - ingot sizes, even colour, to ensure that each specific market was supplied with the most appropriate types.
So there might be comparable lead ingot specification details in their order and tender records. However, EI Co records of this type are mostly (all?) in London - equally inaccessible to OP unfortunately.
exspelio
11 years ago
Somewhere (I can't recall) I came across the reference that the "pig of lead" was a reference to the main block "the pig" that was attached to the "piglets" (the ingots), when you see a litter of Pigs, you can understand that the pig is the big block and the piglets are the ingots.

Please don't forget that mining is based in agriculture!.
Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
Graigfawr
11 years ago
In the iron trade, the channel off which the pig iron moulds branched was known as a 'sow', the analogy being a line of pigs suckling the sow. In the eighteenth century and earlier, 'sow iron' was priced and sold differently to 'pig iron'. The pig iron was the usual 3ft by 4in by 4in approx; sow iron was rather larger cross section (the only definte example I have seen was 6in by 4in cross-section) and was broken into shorter lengths than pig iron to make it easier to handle (the length I saw was around 26 to 30in long).

In the period this thread is concerned with, pig lead, unlike pig iron, was not cast en-masse direct from a furnace by being run in molten state down a channel, off which sows and pigs branched. Instead, lead (and also copper and tin) was ladled by hand from the refining furnace into individual cast iron moulds. The layering that is a prominant feature on many ingots of non-ferrous metals result from the slight cooling of the metal in the mould inbetween each ladleful being added.

Twentieth century photos of casting pig lead show the molten metal piped to individual cast iron moulds which were closely spaced and arranged in a semi-circle, the pipe being moved slightly sideways to each successive mould as the previous one filled up.

Le Loup
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11 years ago
"Graigfawr" wrote:

In C18 and C19, iron was the only metal to be consistently cast in sand. Copper, lead, tin and zinc were consistently cast into cast iron moulds (originally stone moulds). The primary reason for this practice was not to contaminate the non-ferrous metals with sand. It took a lot of fuel to refine them to the levels of purity demanded by the trades and industries that consumed these metals so there was every incentive not to introduce contaminants when casting them to ingots after the final refning. Indeed, these metals were usually priced in proportion to their purity. Iron in comarison, was of lower value, was produced in much greater volumes, making simple sand casting in open beds convenient, and the metal naturally contained a proportion of silca anyway, making modest additional contaminatio n of little importance. Ultimately, iron too came to be cast into cast iron moulds (although sand pig beds lingered until as late as after WW2 in some works, albeit with a commensurate reduction in prices acheived by the owners).

Each non-ferrous metal had long established sizes and shapes of ingots that saw minimal change until the late C19, with most of these traditional ingots continuing in use well into C20 for more conservative markets. For specialist markets (notably for trade to non-industrialised societies), the various metals were frequently produced in shapes and sizes that very closely met the traditional preferences of those markets. The small ingots demanded by the North American fur trade are a typcial example.

The traditional shape and size for pig lead was around 3ft long by around 4in to 6in wide by around 4in thick. The ends of the pigs could be squareish or half-round. Weights varied from around 2cwt upwards.

I have not encountered references to casting pig lead in any other shapes / dimensions (although I have only consulted a couple of smelters' accounts so my knowledge of this aspect from primary sources is very limited). My belief is that lead was exported in normal size (3ft) pigs. I presume that that larger fur trading companies bought pig lead direct from UK smelters / non-ferrous metal merchants, but that smaller operators may have bought smaller quantities from North American merchants who imported cargoes for general sale and sold-on to manufacturers, plumbers, glaziers, fur traders. etc. 3ft ingots wouold have been inconveniently large and so either the North American merchants or other, lower levels of middle-men, recast the lead to smaller ingots suitable for the fur trade. Does this accord with the information you have so far assembled?

Fur trade company accounts are the most likely place to find written records of the dimensions of these smaller ingots. The big companies were very exact in the specifications they issued, knowing very clearly the preferences of their markets. There has been a lot of published research into the activities of the NW Co, the American Co and the Hudsons Bay Co. Chasing up published references may well lead you written specifications, e.g in orders from trade posts to HQ, or in invitations issued by company HQs for smelters / non-ferrous metal merchaants to tender for the supply of certain tonnages of trade goods in specified sizes and qualities.

I concur with your belief that the recasting to small ingots probably mostly or entirely occurred in North America. However the possibility exists that the recasting (or, rather, the lead may have been directly cast to small trade ingots after its refining) may have occurred in the UK. I raise this possibility because the UK copper smelting industry specialised in casting a number of small and unusual dimensions of ingots and related products for sale to companies trading to non-industrialised societies. However, with lead being so very much easier to recast than copper (which requires a much higher temperature and needs skill and care to achieve the correct 'pitch'), perhaps a comparison between the two metals is irrelevant.

The answer will more likely be found in fur companies' records, I suspect, than in UK smelters' records.

Do post the results of your research!



You are correct, smaller bar lead was required for trade to woodsmen & Indians because the had to take it with them in their packs & shot pouches.
You may also be correct re the smaller bar lead being produced in Britain. I will certainly let you know what I find. Thanks for your help & taking an interest. Much obliged.
Regards, Keith.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au 
Le Loup
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11 years ago
Thanks for the advice everyone, every little bit helps take me in a new direction. Knowing the right people to ask is one thing, finding them is another, but yes, historians could probably help.
When the fur trade is mentioned in a search, commonly what you get is the 19th century. Mountain Men in the rocky mountains, beaver & rendezvous. But in fact of course the fur trade in North America started in the 16th century with the French, & the 17th century with the British.
Ball moulds were carried by woodsmen to mould their own round ball for fusils & rifles. Some of the lead came from spent lead retrieved from shot game, but bar lead was also traded for making round ball (bullets).
Thanks for taking an interest in my side of lead production & use. This interest has now taken me back to where the lead came from in the first place. Maybe if I ever visit the Old Country again, I will get the chance to visit some of these mines.
Keith.
UserPostedImage

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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au 
Graigfawr
11 years ago
Those tools look very familair - I've cast many hundreds of musket balls. To cast in quantity i usually used a small cast iron pot and a ladle to transfer the molten lead to the mould. This allowed the pot to be kept topped-up with sequential small additions of solid lead without overly cooling the contents of the pot. The rate of production achievable is much faster than melting a spoonful at a time. Indeed, the main constraint on production speed is that thye mould becomes too hot and has to be cooled at intervals by dipping it in water. Of course, you have to make absoloutely sure that no trace of moisture remains in the mould before adding the next ladleful of molten lead!

I've had the considerable pleasure of visiting a number of Minnesota and Western Ontario fur trade posts.
Le Loup
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11 years ago
I only mould round ball in the field, not at home, that is why I use just the ladle.
Keith.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au 
toadstone
11 years ago
Many years ago now there used to be a pub called the Pig o' Lead on Via Gellia just outside Cromford. Don't know if any readers here know the current owners of the converted property? There might have been some history, pictures or info passed on to them.
I had always intended going in there but the occasion never happened 😞
Graigfawr
11 years ago
"Le Loup" wrote:

I only mould round ball in the field, not at home, that is why I use just the ladle.
Keith.



I've never cast musket balls at home, only in re-enactments. A train of artillery had plenty of carts to carry heavy equipment hence the cast iron pot (to melt all the lead stripped off mansions, churches, etc - the usual story of thieving soldiery 😉 ).
AR
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11 years ago
This article by Lynn Willies contains a lot of information on smelting, and a good image of one of the Hollandia ingots:
http://www.pdmhs.com/PDFs/ScannedBulletinArticles/Bulletin%2011-1%20-%20Derbyshire%20Lead%20Smelting%20in%20the%20Eighteenth%20.pdf 

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